The End - 2000 to 2009

Imam Zaid Shakir’s response to the Pope’s insulting comments

  • Author: MR
  • Filed under: Islam, News
  • Date: Sep 17,2006 | 06:50 PM

This was a khutbah (Friday serman) given by Imam Zaid Shakir. I recommend everyone to listen to it.

Source: ZaidShakir.com


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  • 80 Responses for "Imam Zaid Shakir’s response to the Pope’s insulting comments"

    1. Anand September 24th, 2006 at 11:45 pm

      > He can come on here and say what he wants about Islam and everything else in this world, but can’t admit to his own adherence. I’m guessing it’s some hidden cult, as it’s not apart of the three major monotheistic religions that exist today. Hiding behind the computer for fear of being exposed is what I say… Well Anand, now you ARE being asked.

      Yes it is a hidden cult – hidden by the Creator in the heart of every man and woman. Other than that, I don’t belong to any man-made religion, though I have studied many of them at one time or another. My religion is between me and God and I have no need for intermediaries whether they be priests, scholars, prophets or messiahs.

    2. Mujahideen Ryder September 24th, 2006 at 11:53 pm

      Anand you are one confused person.

    3. Anand September 25th, 2006 at 12:02 am

      Mujahideen Rhyder,

      In a previous post you wrote:

      > But in regards to the apostate hadith, the fact of the matter is that during the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the time of the 4 rightly guided Caliph’s (representatives) Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali the number of people that were killed by the apostate punishment was either 2 or 3.

      But then when searching for information on the Afghani Chrisitan convert I found that you apparently wrote the following at http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2006/03/26/should-the-afghan-christian-be-killed/:

      “He shouldn’t be killed until all measures of dawah has been taken towards him. That is my personally opinion.”

      How can you seriously tell me that there is no compulsion in Islam after writing that? Honestly, before reading this I had the impression that you were a nice person and fairly moderate in your views. I was apparently wrong. An Islam that requires death for apostates, regardless of any amount of “dawah”, will never be compatible with the modern world. Period.

    4. Anand September 25th, 2006 at 12:04 am

      Mujahideen Rhyder,

      In a previous post you wrote:

      > But in regards to the apostate hadith, the fact of the matter is that during the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the time of the 4 rightly guided Caliph’s (representatives) Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali the number of people that were killed by the apostate punishment was either 2 or 3.

      But then when searching for information on the Afghani Chrisitan convert I found that you apparently wrote the following at http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2006/03/26/should-the-afghan-christian-be-killed/:

      “He shouldn’t be killed until all measures of dawah has been taken towards him. That is my personally opinion.”

      How can you seriously tell me that there is no compulsion in Islam after writing that? Honestly, before reading this I had the impression that you were a nice person and fairly moderate in your views. I was apparently wrong. An Islam that requires death for apostates, regardless of any amount of “dawah”, will never be compatible with the modern world. Period.

      Maybe that wasn’t your post however – please tell me that wasn’t your post.

    5. Anand September 25th, 2006 at 3:01 am

      > Anand you are one confused person.

      Perhaps, but at least I have the sense to see that a religion, which on the one hand proclaims that “there is no compulsion in religion” and on the other hand ordains death for the apostate, is utterly illogical and inconsistent. What possible use is the Islamic scholarship that you recommend if one is bereft of simple logic, not to mention compassion and the rudiments of a moral compass?

    6. Mujahideen Ryder September 25th, 2006 at 6:06 am

      Yeah there is no compulsion in religion for those who aren’t Muslim, but this guy was a Muslim already and left Islam, that is a different case.

    7. Mujahideen Ryder September 25th, 2006 at 6:09 am

      Anand why do you even bother coming to this site and posting comments which no one really cares about. We already know you hate Islam by your words. There is no point in staying here, unless you are really lonely and sad and want to get out some frustration on here. I mean I can understand that since you have no religion or no faith at all.

    8. Anand September 25th, 2006 at 6:26 am

      > Yeah there is no compulsion in religion for those who aren’t Muslim, but this guy was a Muslim already and left Islam, that is a different case.

      So what should a person like him do, fake it? Maybe he could secretly pray to Jesus five times a day while facing Mecca? What purpose would that serve? Do you really think that would please God? I’m sorry Bro, but you have apparently discarded a significant portion of your humanity for your religion and are no longer able to distinguish basic right from wrong. It is really a sad thing. You need to summon up some courage and do some serious thinking for yourself.

    9. Mujahideen Ryder September 25th, 2006 at 6:29 am

      Anand on September 25, 2006 at 6:26 am said:

      > Yeah there is no compulsion in religion for those who aren’t Muslim, but this guy was a Muslim already and left Islam, that is a different case.

      So what should a person like him do, fake it? Maybe he could secretly pray to Jesus five times a day while facing Mecca? What purpose would that serve? Do you really think that would please God? I’m sorry Bro, but you have apparently discarded a significant portion of your humanity for your religion and are no longer able to distinguish basic right from wrong. It is really a sad thing. You need to summon up some courage and do some serious thinking for yourself.

      Whatever Allah says in the Qur’an and Muhammad (peace be upon him) said. I will listen with no questions asked.

    10. goodstuff September 25th, 2006 at 9:17 am

      seriously Anand whats ur POINT at the end of all this?? What is it that your trying attain?
      TRUST me one day u’ll have all your answers!
      my advice is think twice…

    11. goodstuff September 25th, 2006 at 9:24 am

      Mujahideen Ryder on September 25, 2006 at 6:09 am said:

      Anand why do you even bother coming to this site and posting comments which no one really cares about. We already know you hate Islam by your words. There is no point in staying here, unless you are really lonely and sad and want to get out some frustration on here. I mean I can understand that since you have no religion or no faith at all.

      only reason why your here is because your lost, feel empty inside and your searching for answers. unfortunetly you are too blind to see the obvious and how beautiful our religion is.

      a negative person will always see things negatively, period.

    12. Submission September 25th, 2006 at 8:22 pm

      “Yes it is a hidden cult – hidden by the Creator in the heart of every man and woman. Other than that, I don’t belong to any man-made religion, though I have studied many of them at one time or another. My religion is between me and God and I have no need for intermediaries whether they be priests, scholars, prophets or messiahs.”

    13. Submission September 25th, 2006 at 8:24 pm

      “Yes it is a hidden cult – hidden by the Creator in the heart of every man and woman. Other than that, I don’t belong to any man-made religion, though I have studied many of them at one time or another. My religion is between me and God and I have no need for intermediaries whether they be priests, scholars, prophets or messiahs.”

      lol. Anand, you truly ARE lost.

    14. Anand September 25th, 2006 at 11:36 pm

      > Anand why do you even bother coming to this site and posting comments which no one really cares about.

      I am deeply interested in religion and enjoy talking about it. I am also trying to understand the mindset and perspective of fundamentalists.

      > We already know you hate Islam by your words.

      No, I don’t hate Islam. I may disagree with various aspects of it, but I don’t hate it. Actually there are some things about Islam that I agree with, e.g. I don’t believe in the Christian idea of the trinity or that Jesus was the son of God, etc., and I also think the tradition of charity in Islam is laudible (though I think it should be universal and not restricted to the ummah.) On the other hand I don’t think Mohammed was the last prophet, nor do I believe that Jesus was the result of a virgin birth (something which both Christians and Muslims believe, which in fact likely has its roots in pagan mythology.) I also don’t believe there has ever been, throughout all history, any revelation from God to man that was untainted or complete. That is why I think it is critical to rely on the gifts of reason and commonsense that God has given us – that, and the natural gratitude arising in the human heart for the Creator are the surest guides to lead us to happiness and the abundance of His grace.

    15. spectating September 26th, 2006 at 6:20 am

      LOL! u all seem very passionate about relegion…
      so tell me…
      where have u all learnt to be soo persistent and pointless?

    16. goodstuff September 26th, 2006 at 9:09 am

      Anand on September 25, 2006 at 11:36 pm said:

      > Anand why do you even bother coming to this site and posting comments which no one really cares about.

      I am deeply interested in religion and enjoy talking about it. I am also trying to understand the mindset and perspective of fundamentalists.

      > We already know you hate Islam by your words.

      No, I don’t hate Islam. I may disagree with various aspects of it, but I don’t hate it. Actually there are some things about Islam that I agree with, e.g. I don’t believe in the Christian idea of the trinity or that Jesus was the son of God, etc., and I also think the tradition of charity in Islam is laudible (though I think it should be universal and not restricted to the ummah.) On the other hand I don’t think Mohammed was the last prophet, nor do I believe that Jesus was the result of a virgin birth (something which both Christians and Muslims believe, which in fact likely has its roots in pagan mythology.) I also don’t believe there has ever been, throughout all history, any revelation from God to man that was untainted or complete. That is why I think it is critical to rely on the gifts of reason and commonsense that God has given us – that, and the natural gratitude arising in the human heart for the Creator are the surest guides to lead us to happiness and the abundance of His grace.

      Jesus was created just like Adam was!

    17. Ramy September 29th, 2006 at 9:54 pm

      http://www.sunnipath.com is a great resource to learn more about some of the interesting points you have raised Anand.

      I suppose in the end however, if we limit ourselves to ink and paper (or in our case, zeros and ones), we will learn a great deal about Islam, as it seems you have. But if complete understanding is what we hope for, I feel that can only be found by being among them. Until then, are we not just trying to tie pieces of information together to prove a point? There are many alive today, who if one has a sincere intention in one’s heart between them and God, God will lead them to in order to learn more.

      But the intention has to be pure, it must not be clouded by pre-concieved notions. I believe if we all took this approach, we would learn alot more. I like what you said about your religion being between you and God with no intermediaries, that is the best place to start. But it is by no means, Anand, the place to finish.

      So happy journies, I hope you’re pleasantly surprised with what you find.

      Your fellow traveller trying to reach God.

      Ramy
      Toronto

    18. Anand October 1st, 2006 at 1:39 am

      > I like what you said about your religion being between you and God with no intermediaries, that is the best place to start. But it is by no means, Anand, the place to finish.

      No, that is precisely the place where we finish. Before that however, guidence taken from teachers and scriptures can be helpful as long as we use our commonsense and discrimination and have the courage to reject those things which are either useless or become useless over time. Sadly, many people in religion wrongly equate the tenacious clinging to religious dogma as a sign of courage and faith, and thereby forfeit their commonsense, discrimination and humanity.

    19. ya Rabb October 8th, 2006 at 8:26 am

      wow, subhanallaah, MR, you definitely got a natch for attracting interesting folks.

      So Anand, you are Jewish guy by upbringing/birth spending your time either in jail or in a psychiatric institution after you finished uni. I figured it all out. You are confused but you are inclined towards christianity but dont want to convert, however, you are in the Midwest Bible belt area. Good job, so you decide to bash muslims and come on their website after reading a “koran” and some seerah and some ahadeeth. Good job.

      Oh wait scratch that you are chrisitan indian, how could I not see it. And you hate to see muslim indians and now you are not so sure about christianity anyways(two guesses, one of em is bound to be correct, lol).

      first of all it is Qur’aan not koran.

      All personal attacks aside, as for as apostasy rules go in Islaam, are the same as in Judaism and christianity. Same as punishmenet for Treason in the US, no biggie here anyways.

      And one best example: A christian man converted to islaam and was scribe for the Prophet, then he left islaam and become christian again and later said that he wrote everything from himself. He died a natural death, was not punished, but God punished him as his comrades buried him in his grave, the next day the grave was unearthed adn they kept burying deeper and deeper but the earth refused to accept his body due to his lie against the Messenger and God.

      If you truely believe in God then the hatred to wards islaam would not stop you from embracing the religion,then the ficklenss of muslim humans will not stop you from embracing islaam.

      But the problem is do you really believe in God, you seem insecure in your belief and that is why you have to prove your points to a bunch of muslim. Also the fact you are a brown indian christian and you get rejection from racist white midwesterner christians(a possiblity or even if you are jewish same reaction).

      It is not even about happiness, it is about contentment and lack of it causes you go to go other folks website and bash them.

      So find your contentment, convince us without bashing us.

      And get out of that institution, become a Jew for Jesus, they are pretty good except totally christian, I tell ya. Or go back to India, the christian indians got nice monastaries and are treated better than muslims there even though muslims are in majority compared to the christians(Just kidding with the last run-on sentence).

      and oh yeah as Tom said, chill yo!

    20. Anand October 13th, 2006 at 6:19 am

      > …as for as apostasy rules go in Islaam, are the same as in Judaism and christianity. Same as punishmenet for Treason in the US, no biggie here anyways.

      Israel is the only Jewish state in the world and it does not sentence people to death for leaving the Jewish faith. Ancient judaism may have prescribed death for apostates, but I think you would be very hard pressed to find a Jewish person today who would support that. Certainly Jesus never taught death for apostates and indeed such a notion is completely antithetical to his teachings. And your comparison with U.S. treason laws is irrelevant and illogical as giving up your U.S. citizenship and moving to another country is within your rights and certainly does not constitute treason.

      > And one best example: A christian man converted to islaam and was scribe for the Prophet, then he left islaam and become christian again…

      Are you speaking of Abdullah bin Saad? I don’t believe he was a Chrisitan – he followed the pagan religion of the Meccans. He was one of several people whom Mohammed ordered to be killed on the day Mecca fell (even if he had taken refuge at the Kabbah.) Yes, he was eventually spared, but the accounts in the hadith do not seem to paint this as some great act of mercy on the part of Mohammed. He was spared because none of the Muslims present at the time stepped forward to kill him; Mohammed actually scolded his followers for their inaction.

      > But the problem is do you really believe in God…

      What will belief give you? Do you really think God is so insecure that He will be upset if you don’t believe in Him? You are transferring human emotion and human insecurity onto God. God does not care whether or not you believe in Him. He is eternal and complete. What we experience of God in this life is what we will experience of God in the next. Belief is only useful only insofar as it makes us receptive to the experience of God in this lifetime. If we never go beyond belief and experience God then that belief is worthless.

    21. goodstuff October 18th, 2006 at 9:40 am

      one of the main differences between us muslims and other religions, for example the jews. is asking too many questions considering the “ayaat” & “hadiths” and wanting explanations for every single detail of its context, always wanting to find a way out or a flaw… this is faith! we simply obay what god wants… with NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

    22. Primo September 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pm

      Deliver A Messiah “Mistaken Identity” By Agron Belica

    23. hiutopor September 17th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

      Hello

      Very interesting information! Thanks!

      G’night

    24. Free me September 25th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

      Primo on September 4, 2007 at 3:49 pm said:

      Deliver A Messiah “Mistaken Identity” By Agron Belica

      WoW!!! Awesome TiTle

    25. RUBIN D. October 23rd, 2007 at 6:52 am

      DELIVER A MESSIAH MISTAKEN IDENTITY BY AGRON BELICA- THE AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK MADE HIS POINT, AND BOY DOES HE BACK IT UP… iT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE MUSLIM WORLD WILL DEAL WITH THIS BOOK.. THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ACCEPT THE THEORY OF IT BEING OTHER THAN JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS, AND FOLLOW THE SAME IDEA FOR SO LONG THAT IT WAS JUDAS ON THE CROSS.. THE AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK HOWEVER HAS GIVEN PROOF, FACTS, AND FIGURES OF HIS THEORY.. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THE SCHOLARS OF ISLAM STAND BY THIS THEORY OR NOT.. I AM TOLD THAT MUSLIMS REQUIRE PROOF FOR ANYTHING WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR RELIGION.. WILL THEY ACCEPT THIS NEW THEORY WITH THE PROOF, OR WILL THEY CONTINUE WITH THE JUDAS THEORY WITH NO PROOF?

    26. sandra lavene October 30th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

      ruby s, your right this is botha challenge to christians and muslims. what a book. the story is so different, and it all makes sense. I believe after reading this story that it was as the author calls him the son of zachariah on the cross. mind blowing info in this book. the distinction between the two -son of mary and son of zachariah. the author did a superb job. Looking forward to the next book. good job author agron belica

    27. Suz.UKgal. October 30th, 2007 at 5:07 pm

      Assalmu3alaikum wrt wbk

      Wait hold up, I cnt b bothered to read everythng on here, BUT, I DID read something with which I…hrm, want to stress:
      ISLAM is ABOUT asking questions. Islam encourges the asking of questions. So, I say, go ahead and read more bout Islam. If Allah want’s it, the answer will always be found.

      Wassalaam.
      May Allah Bless You All.
      Allah Hafiz.

    28. layla October 31st, 2007 at 11:02 am

      deliver a messiah mistaken identity… o my god. good stuff. thanx a million.. great job! i advise to study this material, curious also as is ruby s and sandra, the feed back from the mullahs or muftas about it….. replicas’ wow. the story had a good flow. smart of the author to leave the more detailed parts of the book for the sequel.. thankyou imam zaid like your site a whole lot. ill pass it along. should i now say salam laykam. go islam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    29. FRANK V. November 17th, 2007 at 11:41 am

      THE AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK DELIVER A MESSIAH MISTAKEN IDENTITY MADE IT QUITE CLEAR THAT HE WASN’T OUT BASHING ANYONES RELIGION.. I HAVE READ THE BOOK , AND QUITE FRANKLY HE MAKES GOOD POINTS ON CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE MESSIANIC STORY AS TOLD IN THE GOSPELS.. I WAS AMAZINGLY SURPRISED AS TO HOW HE USED HIS PROOFS NAMELY THE FOUR GOSPELS AND THE MOSLEM KORAN TO SUPPORT THIS THEORY OF JOHN BEING ON THE CROSS AND NOT THE CHRIST. IN ALL THE LITERATURE I HAVE READ PERTAINING TO THIS CRUCIFIXION THEORY BY ISLAMISTS, I HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED ONE LIKE IT. WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT THAT JOHN THE BAPTIST BEAR SO MANY SIMILARATIES OF JESUS. YOU KNOW I TOO AM LOOKING INTO THE KORAN MORE NOW. IT IS INTERESTING THAT THIS AUTHOR DOES NOT REGARD THESE TWO PROPHETS AS FAILURES (ONE KILLED ON THE CROSS) AND THE OTHERS (HEAD BEING CHOPPED OFF). THIS AUTHOR ATTRIBUTES SUCCESS TO THEM.. TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I’D RATHER REMEMBER THEM OF SUCCESS THEN FAILURE. SO MR SIMEON OR WHOEVER YOU ARE, I THINK YOU SHOULD RE-EXAMINE YOUR GOSPELS (RECORDS) AND FIND OUT THE TRUTH BEFORE CASTING SUCH VILE ASSAULTS ON A MAN WHO IS IN SEARCH FOR TRUTH. MAY THE HIGH LORD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.

    30. Sarah August 15th, 2008 at 3:23 am

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      DELIVER A MESSIAH MISTAKEN IDENTITY

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      author of 6 books, CCRN
      Author Geri Ahearn, INC.
      Lifetime Member ABI Women’s Review Board

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