This was a khutbah (Friday serman) given by Imam Zaid Shakir. I recommend everyone to listen to it.
Source: ZaidShakir.com
Related posts:
- State of the Union: The Muslim Experience with Sh. Hamza Yusuf, Imam Zaid Shakir, Imam Mohammed Magid and Hadia Mubarak
- Like One Body: A Muslim’s Responsibility to the Ummah – Imam Zaid Shakir & Sh. Yasir Qadhi – NYU 10/15/09 7 PM
- Imam Zaid Shakir – Remembering our Ancestors
- I would give my allegiance (baiyah) to Sh. Hamza Yusuf and Imam Zaid Shakir
- Help Imam Siraj Online Fundraiser with Imam Zaid Shakir, Imam Suhaib Webb and Shaykh Faraz Rabbani
80 Responses for "Imam Zaid Shakir’s response to the Pope’s insulting comments"
Alhamdullilah,all power to all
the people of the good.
Imam Zaid OWNS the Pope. boo yeeee! Anyhow, the opinions of the Pope shouldnt mean much to us anyway. We know what Naabi Muhammad stood for… and that is what is truly important.
And we should try to follow his sunnah…that is how we can show out true dedication to him, sAllah alayhi wa salem.
True, the pope’s comments should not be all that important to us Muslims, as we know the true message and meanings of Islam and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). However, this does not mean that we should let people basically slander and spread lies about our beautiful religion; especially for a person of the stature of the pope, to whom many people, me NOT included, look up to and revere. Therefore, he should have been more careful with his words, which can cause other non-Muslims to have distorted and corrupt views of Islam and out Beloved Messenger Rasool-Allah sallal laaho alaihi wasullum.
Salaam
Why should the pope be careful while reciting words written ages ago? While Islam is a peaceful sect, your leaders preach threats and fear. Islam is only one belief. To think that you can intimidate any other belief just because it doesn’t fit your belief is foolish and childish. A large segment of the worlds population doesn’t accept Islam. Yours is a religion of peace and reason not hate and threats. How many sermons have you listened to chastising Christ and Moses? A few I’ll bet. You want acceptance but refuse to accept other views. It has been a long time since a christen has killed a Muslim because of his beliefs, but everyday we are reminded that we either capitulate or die to radical Islam
Assalaamualaikum,
How would someone like it if I quoted Hitler? It’s wrong to use the words of a tyrant and I understand that the Pope was quoting (a point he stressed) but still the comments left a lot to be desired. Btw karl, forget our preachers forget everything, I dare you (that’s right dare you) to read the Qur’an and tell me where killing innocent people is encouraged, tell me where it says go around killing jews and christians. Yo, has everyone forgotten Spain and Palestine and where the Jews, Christians and Muslims lived harmoniously side by side? btw Karl, it my Holy Book it says “There is no compulsion in religion” therefore I can’t force anyone to accept Islam or denounce. Sorry if I come across as being rude, I assure you that was not intention. Peace out.
Chapter 17 Verse 81
Fiamaanallah
btw, what the heck is radical Islam?! iwould expect surfers who convert to Islam to say that. You either follow the Qur’an and traditions of the Messenger of God (peace be upon him for eternity) or you don’t.
> “There is no compulsion in religion†therefore I can’t force anyone to accept Islam or denounce.
No compulsion? Please. Here is small sample of what can be found in Sahih Bukhari (caps mine):
“Allah’s Apostle said, The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and THE ONE WHO REVERTS FROM ISLAM (apostate) AND LEAVES THE MUSLIMS.” 9:83:17
57. Narrated ‘Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I WOULD HAVE KILED THEM ACCORDING TO THE STATEMENT OF ALLAH’S APOSTLE, “WHOEVER, CHANGED HIS ISLAMIC RELIGION, THEN KILL HIM.’” 9:84:57
The treatment of non-Muslims in lands conquered by Muslims as 3rd class citizens (or even worse) is also a form of compulsion and has been a very effective means of bringing about conversion since the early days of Islam.
“How many sermons have you listened to chastising Christ and Moses? A few I’ll bet.”
Absolutely none, because Christ and Moses (upon them be peace) are two of the greatest prophets in Islam, whom all Muslims love.
Perhaps it is you, Karl, who needs to realise that the real world is completely different to the version the media shows you.
Peace
> Yours is a religion of peace and reason not hate and threats.
Karl, as Traveller points out, you have some serious misconceptions about Islam. In addition to what he said I will add that Islam is not, nor has it ever been, a religion of peace or reason.
AstagfirAllah, I have never heard any Muslim ridicule Jesus (peace be upon him) or Moses (peace be upon him). This is blasphemy!!! Jesus and Moses are the Messengers of God, we respect them highly. After we mention any messenger of God we say “and peace be upon them”.
Based on CNN and what people see on there, yeah Islam can seem violent due to the minority extremists that are magnified x 100 all over the world.
No one cares to see peaceful normal Muslims which are the majority. That’s boring. (sarcasm)
Islam has been hijacked but radical idiots and they are only being helped by people like you and “karl”. You guys propogate it, misquote hadith and quranic verses all the time. And idiots like Osama bin Laden and others prove you guys right, but no one hears about the scholars of Zaytuna or SunniPath or other true Islamic institutes. You won’t see people like Shaykh Abdullah bin Bayyah, one of the top scholars around the world on TV representing Muslims, you’ll see some idiot covering his face holding an ak-47.
Muslims have been condemning extremists even before 9/11 within our own Muslim community.
Please take some time when your free and check out the following links:
What the media needs to show: Muslim Scholars condemning Terrorism
Shaykh Hamza Yusuf on the Israeli War
Who Hijacked Islam?
The problem isn’t with Islam, but with wackos
Eddie Griffin on Christianity and Islam [Funny, nothing wrong with a little humor,
]
Clash of the Uncivilized: Insights on the Cartoon Controversy
> Islam has been hijacked but radical idiots and they are only being helped by people like you and “karlâ€.
Perhaps…or maybe they are being helped by Muslims and non-Muslims alike who are unwilling to admit the basic nature of Islam that stems from its origins.
>You guys propogate it, misquote hadith and quranic verses all the time.
Ok, could you please give me the correct interpretation of the quotes from Sahih Bukhari that I provided in my earlier post?
> Muslims have been condemning extremists even before 9/11 within our own Muslim community.
And yet it continues to exists in your community. Why? If the force of condemnation was only 10% of the outrage we see exhibited in the streets over stupid cartoons and such, maybe it would make a difference.
This is dedicated to you karl:
From Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon them all)
I agree Muslims and non-Muslims are helping things radical idiots.
Regarding the hadith, please submit your questions to the scholars of have linked on my site. I personally im a student studying Islam. I have not fully perfected my religion. I am also very young and my language is limited to just English. It is better to ask for the correct translation and interpretation of hadith from the scholars.
But in regards to the apostate hadith, the fact of the matter is that during the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the time of the 4 rightly guided Caliph’s (representatives) Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali the number of people that were killed by the apostate punishment was either 2 or 3. That is over a 100 year period. They were the LAST resort punishment.
In fact, in order for the Islamic court to come to that conclusion they would have to have substancial reasoning to do it.
Over that same period, there were many people that left Islam and were not killed.
But all this that I have said is based on what I have read and heard. Again please consult true Islamic scholarship.
One major problem which is lacking amongst Muslims is knowledge. When I say knowledge, I mean reading about the history of the Islam and the application of the Qur’an and Sunnah. Some Muslims today live in a dream world where they want to practice every single hadith to the letter without realizing that every hadith is not applicable to them.
Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim and yet many Muslims don’t even do this.
The Prophet Muhamamd (peace be upon him) said: “The ink of a scholar is more sacred then the blood of a martyr.”
How many Muslims really realize this saying? It is sahih
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was asked by a man, “Should I join the jihad?”, the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked him, “Do you have parents?” and the man replied, “Yes.”, and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) answered him and said, “Then do jihad by serving them!”.
How many Muslims obey there parents?
As you can see Muslims have a lot of problems and faults.
“The problem is not religion. The problem is the absence of religion.” – Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
> the number of people that were killed by the apostate punishment was either 2 or 3.
Even one is too many. How many people did Jesus kill during his life? Even myself – I have never killed anyone for apostacy or anything else for that matter and I am just a normal person – not a prophet or a saint. Anyways, how do you know it is only 2 or 3? Maybe there are only 2 or 3 that you know of that have been written about, it doesn’t follow logically from this however that there were only 2 or 3 times that this occurred. Even one is far too many.
> The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was asked by a man, “Should I join the jihad?â€, the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked him, “Do you have parents?†and the man replied, “Yes.â€, and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) answered him and said, “Then do jihad by serving them!â€.
This is a single instance; the fact is that if he had told all his followers what he told this man no one would know of Mohammed today because intimidation and violence carried out with his sizable army played a pivitol role in spreading and establishing Mohammed’s influence in the region. Islam was born in violence and bloodshed.
As far as I know Jesus had no army and instead of meting out retribution according to barbaric Old Testament injunctions, he offered love and forgiveness. I am not a Christian but when I look at his example I see very clearly that he was a ray of light and hope in a region that before and after him had been filled with darkness. Even today there are very few who have the capacity to even begin to approach his lofty example. Can the same thing be said of Mohammed based on what we know of his behavior? I don’t believe so.
> “The problem is not religion. The problem is the absence of religion.†– Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
Real religious sentiment is intrinsic to the human heart but is covered over by a hard shell of ignorance. When this shell begins to crack, you will see the real meaning of religion – all the words in all the religious scriptures of the world become meaningless.
There is no point in proving what you say is wrong, becuase you will say you are right and I will say I am right.
Only God can be the final judge.
Peace
> There is no point in proving what you say is wrong, becuase you will say you are right and I will say I am right.
What I am saying is based on history. Mohammed was a military conqueror and personally oversaw the slaughter of thousands. The violent and blood-soaked origins of Islam is the very root of the problems that we have today.
> Only God can be the final judge.
God is not talking much and so we are duty-bound to use our reason and commonsense – not using these gifts is one of the greatest sins.
Whoa! What history books have you been reading. I have never read anything like that!
Can you please show me some links from Muslim scholars before the year 1900?
There are accounts of the many military campaigns led by Mohammed in Ibn Ishaq’s (circa 769 AD) Sirat Rasul Allah and also in the Hadith. When reading these accounts one must always keep in mind that they were written by Muslims and will therefore always try to paint Mohammed and his followers in the best possibly light in any circumstance and try justify their actions. For obvious reasons we cannot know the perspective of those people who were killed in the deserts of Arabia by Mohammed’s army, but it is reasonable to suspect that they would probably have a very different story to tell.
Anand, I know you’ve done a lot of research by reading Ibn Waraq’s books, and Spencer’s books, and perhaps faithfreedom? And I know what we watch on TV, too often, only supports these absurdities. I don’t blame you for your thoughts because I know that if I wasn’t guided to Islam by the grace of Allah swt, God knows what media traps I would have fell into, and what I would be thinking about Islam. However, let’s discuss this logically: If you lift one verse from the Qur’an out of context, of course you will never understand its meaning. The Qur’an is not meant to be read by reading random verses and putting a puzzle together in your head, as the media is so used to doing. You need to know the context, the time and reason it was revealed, and you need to read the whole chapter, maybe even the chapters before it and after it. Same goes for hadith, you need to know the REASON RasulAllah saws said it and in WHAT context. There are many other things to be considered in hadith, such as it’s authenticity (many hadith are considered WEAK because of the narrators, or even REJECTED). What’s a really great way to tell if a hadith is rejected, other than that it should say so next to it…? If it contradicts the Qur’an!! That thing about Islam being spread by the sword, that’s all garbage as well. Watch “Decoding the past, secrets of the Koran”, a history channel documentary which clears up a lot of this stuff. I also guarantee you that if you take these things to one of the scholars Amir sugggested, you will find answers to all of your questions/concerns/comments. I know that you believe you are right, but by talking to someone who has REAL knowledge of islam, you can either confirm this (instead of walking around only THINKING you’re right), or you can possibly find that you were not so right…neither of which would be a bad thing.
After you have done these things, I would love to discuss these topics with you, but not on a forum as I have found that these things only anger people who are not used to hearing people talk bad about their religion, or excite people who love to talk bad about that specific religion. If you are willing to discuss these things logically and peacefully, after doing the research that Amir has asked (and watching the video I recommended IF POSSIBLE–if not it’s ok), email me at Litlprayer@aol.com and make the subject “anand” so I know to open it. My goal will not be to try and convert you to Islam, but only to show you the other side, the whole picture. Then, based on KNOWLEDGE, you can make up your own mind about Islam.
Peace!
> I know you’ve done a lot of research by reading Ibn Waraq’s books, and Spencer’s books, and perhaps faithfreedom?
Actually I have never read any of these books, though Ibn Waraq’s book looks interesting. I have read the Koran, an English translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah and some of the hadith.
> That thing about Islam being spread by the sword, that’s all garbage as well.
Then why did Mohammed need to take an army of 10,000 men with him to convice the Meccans to submit? Do you think those 10,000 men were carrying flowers instead of swords? Please, let’s use some commonsense. The fact is that the sword played a very important role in the spread of early Islam – it wasn’t the only means, but it was certainly pivitol. In contrast to Mohammed, Jesus never had an army, nor did he ever kill anyone.
Jesus never had a whole government to run, an economy to establish, a military to control.
Muhammad (peace be upon him) was all this and more.
Islam has all these aspects to which makes it different from other faiths.
Again as I have said before, there is no point in discussing things with you, because you will never change your opinion, and it is only by the will of God would your heart change, but until then.
Peace.
One more thing:
Jesus never killed people, but yet throughout the history of Chrisitanity, it has benn VERY VIOLENT
-witch hunting, 1,000s of WOMEN killed ordered by the Church
-crusades, war ordered by the church.
They were following the teachings of Jesus.
“Have you not looked at him who disputed with Ibrahim about his Lord (Allah), because Allah had given him the kingdom When Ibrahim said (to him): ‘My Lord is He Who gives life and causes death.’ He said, ‘I give life and cause death.’ Ibrahim said, ‘Verily, Allah brings the sun from the east; then bring it you from the west.’ So the disbeliever was utterly defeated. And Allah guides not the people, who are wrongdoers.â€(2:258)
Principle of Dawah: dont ever get in to useless debates. give the message of Tawheed and invite them to islam with compassion and move on.
Anand,
I’m simply here to speak some reason, not to fight, yell, or cause problems.
You personally admitted that you haven’t read in depth into the books of seerah. And you continuously make comparisons of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) to the Prophet Jesus (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Yet your argument lies flawed at the beginning for the following reasons:
1.) There are no AUTHENTIC accounts of the life of Jesus (except the Qur’an). The Bible is not considered an authentic source (even Christians will tell you this), as it is simply a translation and re-interpretation (orginial language was Aramaic and then translated to Greek and then to English). You will certainly find in Christian communities throughout the world that the Bible is divinely “inspired”, not divinely “revealed”, as the books we know today (i.e. King James) are simply interpretations by historical figures in the Catholic church.
2.) You continue to give this impression that the only way Islam spread was through violence. I will not deny that there were battles fought, but in many cases (i.e. Badr, Uhud), they were the result of aggression from the mushrikeen (polythesists). They had waged war on the Muslims, and fighting them was the only way to bring peace and order back to the Arabian peninsula.
3.)Anand, this my friend, you do not have an answer for. Why, at this time in the 20th century, is it estimated that there are over 135,000 American converts to Islam (with thousands more across the globe), ranging from all different ethnicities. WHERE IS THE COERCION? WHERE IS THE VIOLENCE? There is none, and you know why? These people know al-Haq (the truth) when they see it. There is no sword to their necks, no wars, nothing. They simply see the true message of Islam and what it really brings to this world. The veil of ignorance and self-pride is removed from their eyes and they read the Qur’an and the life of the Prophet Muhammad (SAS) with an open mind and heart. Maybe you should do the same.
Regards
Whoops, made a mistake:
“Why, at this time in the 20th century…”
I meant 21st century, sorry
> Jesus never killed people, but yet throughout the history of Chrisitanity, it has benn VERY VIOLENT
Yes, the problem with Christians is that most do not follow the teachings of the founder of their faith, and the problem with Muslims is that some of them do.
> There are no AUTHENTIC accounts of the life of Jesus (except the Qur’an). The Bible is not considered an authentic source…
Does the Koran mention Jesus killing anyone or conquering cities for God with an army of ten thousand men behind him? I don’t recall reading anything of that sort in the Koran. As I recall, in the Bible, Jesus only referred to an army of angels in Heaven. In any case, our views of the nature and origin of the Koran are certainly going to be divergent so let’s just leave it at that for now.
> You continue to give this impression that the only way Islam spread was through violence.
Read my post, here is what I wrote: “The fact is that the sword played a very important role in the spread of early Islam – it wasn’t the only means, but it was certainly pivitol.”
> Why, at this time in the 20th century, is it estimated that there are over 135,000 American converts to Islam (with thousands more across the globe), ranging from all different ethnicities. WHERE IS THE COERCION? WHERE IS THE VIOLENCE?
There are many people who will believe just about anything if only to give their lives meaning, and in these uncertain and complicated times the strictness and simple certainty that Islam seems to provide probably has a strong appeal for some people. For me, I am not impressed by numbers in the least. I am accountable to God and God alone and have no desire to jump on a religious bandwagon of any sort. For most people fear is the primary motivation of religious feeling – fear of uncertainty, of hell, of death, of ostrication, etc. That is not the real religion and I have no interest in that. The fact is that almost no one has any real faith in God and thus we find that most people cling to rituals, rules, superstitions, dogma, theology, and this irrational and unprovable idea that they are God’s elect, etc. Simple human fear is at the root of these things. God is far beyond any of that.
“Does the Koran mention Jesus killing anyone or conquering cities for God with an army of ten thousand men behind him?”
The Qur’an does not mention it, and neither does it mention many other facts about the life of Jesus (AS), as ‘Isa (Jesus) was sent to his particular community and time; the key points of his message and life have been mentioned where necessary, and Allah knows best.
You seem to be quite adamant about the conquer of Makkah by the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Do you realize this was a peaceful conquest? The Prophet SAS came with his head down in humility and spared the lives of all the people who, just years before, had tortured him, his family, friends, and anyone close to him.
” For most people fear is the primary motivation of religious feeling – fear of uncertainty, of hell, of death, of ostrication, etc”
Wow, and since when is this established? Do you even know any Muslim converts? Almost every Muslim convert I have ever met has become Muslim because the core principles of Islam teach the essence of life, and that is to worship God, and God alone. If this is done with consistency and sincerity, God willing, the eternal home is the next abode. The rituals you mention are only a means to obtain our connection with God.
“There are many people who will believe just about anything if only to give their lives meaning, and in these uncertain and complicated times the strictness and simple certainty that Islam seems to provide probably has a strong appeal for some people”
Again, this statement shows your lack of knowledge about the diversity of new Muslims who enter Islam. They come from all educational and ethnic backgrounds, and their motivations for entering Islam are as diverse as themselves. Please read up on the many Islamic convert stories to see for yourself: http://www.islamtomorrow.com/converts.asp
To be honest Anand, you really don’t seem to have much knowledge about Islam at all. You remind me of most atheists who don’t really know the facts, but are good at sugar-coating your proofs with your own rationale (which to you might mean something, but to the 1+ billion Muslims, doesn’t mean much at all).
I recommend you read up on some more authentic sources and not really waste your time posting here, as most ppl take your comments and similar ones like it with a grain of salt.
“There are many people who will believe just about anything if only to give their lives meaning”..interestingly most of our converts are from christian heritage, many from very religious traditions…has christianity failed to give meaning to their followers lives then?,
“I am accountable to God and God alone and have no desire to jump on a religious bandwagon of any sort.”…Yes, indeed, you are accountable, and so are we, and the whole of humanity…We dont say that just become muslim, and then you are of the “chosen people” blah blah…The Quran tells over and over, “Be mindful of God”. who is that addressing, the disbelievers? no, its addressing the muslims, fear god, do not do what is wrong..so, its not about tribalism with us..islam unites us in this world, but we all are accountable of our own selves in the next.
“for most people fear is the primary motivation of religious feeling – fear of uncertainty, of hell, of death, of ostrication, etc”
That religion is a comfort to man is not a sign of its falsehood, God wants the best for us, and in actuality, HE is the only one who really knows whats best, even if it doesnt make sense to you at this present moment…so, yes, religion does have comforts for fear, and that makes sense…how many people have you spoken to on why they converted to Islam, from which you have collected this data by the way? or is this part of the muck you collected from sites on the internet?…I think if you speak to converts, and many of my teachers and friends are, you would come across a very different idea of why people convert to islam.
“The fact is that almost no one has any real faith in God”…and you complain of ppl believing in dogma?!….what divine inspiration did you have that led you to this conclusion?, how many hearts have you opened to find a lack of belief in God?..
“most people cling to rituals, rules, superstitions, dogma, theology, and this irrational and unprovable idea that they are God’s elect, etc.”…An equally convincing argument is that they believe that these “rituals” were divinely revealed from God, and have been carefully preserved from alteration, atleast in the case of Islam, and will bring them closer to God, neither of which can be proved…so this idea of yours is “irrational and unprovable” as well…I already explained that “Muslim” does not mean “elect” in any way, yes, in general, being muslim is saying that I submit to God, but the action has to follow,there is no free pass to heaven dude..this is well founded in Islamic belief.
Anand, we are Muslims, and we are glad to be that, and nothing you say will ever change our belief. We love and highly adore our most beloved chosen Prophet Muhammad. We love him more than ourselves, We know his life, and you are not the first to make these baseless, vain accusations against him. True research shows that the Prophet Muhammad was the most succesful of all prophets. He did have to fight, but he always loved peace. This is clear throughout his life..Christians love to boast about their “turn the other cheek” policy, but in all practical casses, they too know that stance is anything but practical. You jump from one absurdity to another in your arguments, and to give clarifications to you on these matters is of no use because your interest is not in understanding, your interest is in bashing him. We beleive in Islam and practice it, and have found it to be the most fulfilling part of our lives…we have no interest in fighting anyone, we wish for a peaceful islamization of the west….Give urself a break, stay off the internet for a while, go outside and meet real human biengs.
LOL…I just read “believers” post after submitting my own…nicely put.
> You seem to be quite adamant about the conquer of Makkah by the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Do you realize this was a peaceful conquest?
If it was peaceful then why did Mohammed need to bring a 10,000 man army with him? The fact is that Mecca at that time was no match for Mohammed’s martial power and no longer posed a serious threat to him. The people of Mecca knew that they would be defeated and so most surrendered. You call this peaceful but I do not. He forced his will and his beliefs upon Meccans by the threat of death by means of his vast army – not by spiritual power or love or any spiritual quality. But nevertheless some of the Meccans did fight as I recall – a few – the brave or perhaps foolhardy among them.
> Wow, and since when is this established?
Look how much detail some religions go into hell, and the punishment of non-believers and apostates and so on – it is all about fear of hell and the rewards paradise. This is really nothing but a manefistation of base materialism, and human selfishness and fear projected into the cosmic realm. There is nothing spiritual about this at all.
> Do you even know any Muslim converts?
Yes, I know two women from my University. One had converted to Islam because of her marriage to a Muslim. I’m not sure why the other converted. Neither one is practicing Islam any longer. The first women’s marriage didn’t work out and she stopped practicing. The other one left Islam to join Scientology. By the way, I don’t think all Muslims are bad. In fact I think the majority are good – as good as most other people – no better or worse.
> I recommend you read up on some more authentic sources and not really waste your time posting here
I have read the Koran and the accounts of Ibn Ishaq. I think those are pretty authentic. Perhaps what you mean is that I should stop thinking for myself and subscribe to your interpretations. No thanks, I can read these books and come to my own conclusions.
> ..interestingly most of our converts are from christian heritage, many from very religious traditions…has christianity failed to give meaning to their followers lives then?
I wouldn’t know since I am not a Christian – though I do have the impression that Jesus must have been a very great man.
> …and you complain of ppl believing in dogma?!….what divine inspiration did you have that led you to this conclusion?, how many hearts have you opened to find a lack of belief in God?..
To my mind belief is one thing and faith is another. I have faith in my wife because she has proven her love and loyalty through our many years of knowing each other. I don’t put my faith in people I don’t know or have never met. It is easy to believe all sorts of things regardless of their basis in reality, but real faith is born of experience. Otherwise it is just fantasy. If a person has no experience of God, then that person cannot have faith.
“If it was peaceful then why did Mohammed need to bring a 10,000 man army with him?”
Regardless if the Prophet Muhammad SAS brought 10,000, 1,000, or even 5, the purpose of the conquest was not to harm anyone. It was to reclaim the Makkah, the location of Al-Ka’bah, the one true center of monotheistic worship. To have mushrikeen (polytheists) in control of the city would no longer be acceptable, as the rule of God must take precendence in the holy city.
“Yes, I know two women from my University”
Wow, a whole TWO people?? What about the other 100,000+ Americans that enter Islam each year? Again, you should really stop making baseless generalizations.
“I have read the Koran and the accounts of Ibn Ishaq…Perhaps what you mean is that I should stop thinking for myself and subscribe to your interpretations”
No, perhaps you should read it with an open mind. I can almost guarantee you read it with the intention of finding something to pick out and, and whatever incident seemed to fit your fancy, you chose it. You are free to your opinion, and if that’s what you think, there’s not much else i can say. Allah guides whom He pleases.
Also, please stop making comparisons to the life of Jesus (AS) and Muhammad (SAS), as Muslims revere both as Prophets from God, whose messages/principles were the same.
The fact is that the Prophet Muhammad was successful as a man in all aspects of life, whether it was his military conquests, his life as a businessman, a father, husband, leader, friend, etc. He was the few people in history who successfully combined the religious and political into one rhealm.
And finally, as I feel arguing with you is a waste of time, I leave with this ayah (English translation) from the Qur’an:
“Fain would they extinguish Allah’s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).” 9:32
We love Islam. We love our Prophets, and we love the existence of peace and security. What you or anyone say will never change that. And Allah is the best of planners.
Anand – have you spoken to any Muslim scholars?
From the Qur’an Allah (swt) talking to Prophet:
{It is part of the Mercy of Allah that you deal gently with them. Were you severe or harsh-hearted, they would have went away from you: so pass over (their faults), and ask for (Allah’s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in the affairs (of the moment). Then, when you have taken a decision, place your trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who place their trust
(in Him).} 3:159
[Lessons from this verse] It is not the snake bite that kills,it’s the venom that flows through the blood. The antidote is
forgiving people. Don’t let anger rent space in your mind and heart. Forgive and pass over people’s faults.
It was to reclaim the Makkah, the location of Al-Ka’bah, the one true center of monotheistic worship.
The one true center of monotheistic worship is the human heart. That is the place where “Hajj” should be performed. The Kabbah is just a place – birds fly over it like any other.
> To have mushrikeen (polytheists) in control of the city would no longer be acceptable, as the rule of God must take precendence in the holy city.
There are many gods in this world – money, power, fame, sex, etc. As long as a person desires these above God he is a polytheist.
Ezekiel 43:2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like the sound of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
hey anand, i really don’t understand why you come on this site and bother these muslims about their beliefs.
Are you unhappy with something for some reason, has a muslim done you wrong once and now you hate them all? Everybody here is satisfied with their beleifs and way of life, so who are you to come here and bash the sources of their religion and then expect converts into your ideology. And don’t say your not, one of your motivations for being here is to drive away good muslims from true islam.
you’ve heard of self-fullfilling prophecies, haven’t you.
everyone in the media depicts the muslims in a negative way, so what happens next, like any normal HUMAN BEING they react. some express thier emotion in a much more violent manner than others.
Please tell me when the media has done the muslims justice.
Everyone on this site seems to be treating you with respect and mercy, while you on the other give me a picture of someone whos sitting in front of his computer hammering away at the keyboard with steam blowing out of his ears.
All i want to say is, chill out. Life is too short for useless hostility.
Just one question Anand, are you happy with your life? Because everyone here seems to be.
I don’t know how many muslims you have met, but the ones I’ve interacted with always make me wonder about the purity of a human being and how Islam prevents the muslims from becoming dirty like the moral lacking society we live in.
Hey dude, all that matters is that you’re happy with your way of life, and their happy with theirs, and so like my momma always told me,” If you aint got something nice to say, then dont say it at all”.
given that the holy month of “Ramadan” has officially bagun here in Saudi… i just wanted to say “Ramadan Kareem & Mubarak” to everyone and may u all have a great time with your family and friends. And may God accept all your fasting and prayers throughout this holy month…
damnnn i love ramadan!
peace
Hi Tom,
> Are you unhappy with something for some reason, has a muslim done you wrong once and now you hate them all?
No. Did you read my posts? Here is what I wrote: “By the way, I don’t think all Muslims are bad. In fact I think the majority are good – as good as most other people – no better or worse.”
> Everybody here is satisfied with their beleifs and way of life, so who are you to come here and bash the sources of their religion and then expect converts into your ideology.
How do you know that everyone is satisfied? You assume that because it makes your feel comfortable with your beliefs, but the fact is that people do leave Islam from time to time – just like what happens in any other religion. It is a natural defense mechanism to assume that apostates are insincere, weak or bad people but the fact is that some may be as good and sincere, perhaps moreso, than those that stay. I think you will find that as your understanding of God deepens you will come to a point where your current beliefs are no longer sufficient – to stubbornly cling to them at that point will only impede your relationship with God.
> Everyone on this site seems to be treating you with respect and mercy, while you on the other give me a picture of someone whos sitting in front of his computer hammering away at the keyboard with steam blowing out of his ears.
Really? I have actually tried to be very careful and polite. I assure you that I am not angry in the least. Have you checked your ears?
> All i want to say is, chill out. Life is too short for useless hostility.
Ok, thanks.
> Just one question Anand, are you happy with your life? Because everyone here seems to be.
I don’t see why this is relevant to the current discussion but since you ask, yes I am happy – very much so. Thank you for your concern. I hope you are happy too.
> I don’t know how many muslims you have met, but the ones I’ve interacted with always make me wonder about the purity of a human being and how Islam prevents the muslims from becoming dirty like the moral lacking society we live in.
Now what did your Mama always tell you? Yes, there are problems in Western societies but I think it is safe to say that countries where Islam is the majority religion have some fairly significant societal problems as well.
> …and then expect converts into your ideology. And don’t say your not, one of your motivations for being here is to drive away good muslims from true islam.
I am not trying to convert, but perhaps I have some hope to start an ember in the hearts of those few who are ripe for a truer and deeper “Islam” that doesn’t hang itself on externalities and materialistic/sensual conceptions of paradise, or depend upon the judgements of scholars who spend their lives reading dusty old books. Those who are ripe will understand.
I am not trying to convert, but perhaps I have some hope to start an ember in the hearts of those few who are ripe for a truer and deeper “Islam†that doesn’t hang itself on externalities and materialistic/sensual conceptions of paradise, or depend upon the judgements of scholars who spend their lives reading dusty old books. Those who are ripe will understand
Ok, let’s all listen to our residing scholar in Islam (Anand) break down the principles of Islam. Let’s throw out 1300 years of tradition and scholarship to an atheist living in Ohio, who seems to have all the answers to our purpose in life.
Anand, let’s put it this way. Suppose, that nothing that we believe in existed. There was no God, no afterlife, nothing. We lived our lives to whatever pleased us. But assume that we called the wrong bluff, and soon after our death, we realize that we ARE accountable for our actions in this life? Then what do we do? That seems like a pretty big bluff to lose, I would say.
And so what’s the alternative? Living a life of peace, serenity, and submission? A life of service to humanity, with complete selfnessness? A life of good morals, and wholeness both physically and spirutally. That seems like a pretty good alternative to me.
“Verily, We have warned you of a Penalty near, the Day when man will see (the deeds) which his hands have sent forth, and the Unbeliever will say, “Woe unto me! Would that I were (metre) dust!” (An-Naba 78:40)
I am one of many people who are huge admirers of Mohamed Ali aka.(Cassius Clay) the worlds greatest boxing champion. and im also sure that you are all aware of the fact that he is a muslim convert… this is a part of an interview i found in a Readers Digest Magazine that took place after the 9/11 attacks (btw MR i have this amazing documentary concerning 9/11 on a CD, how can i send it to you, so you can post it? it doesnt only scratch the surface…) its so sad that some people are so easily brainwashed by the media… people still think muslims were behind the attacks…
The Interview:
Bingham: Tell us your reaction to the attacks this morning?
Ali: Killing like that can never be justified. It’s unbelievable. I could never support hurting innocent men, women and children. Islam is a religion of peace. It does not promote terrorism or killing people.
Bingham: Muslims are supposed to be responsible for this. How does it make you feel?
Ali: People say a Muslim caused this destruction. I am angry that the world sees a certain group of Islam followers who caused this destruction, but they are not real Muslims. they are racist fanatics who call themselves Muslims, permitting this murder of thousands.
Bingham: When you became a Muslim, the Religion was Perceived as ani-white. Has that changed?
Ali: The real Islam comes from Mecca. All people are God’s People. The Devil can be any color.
Bingham: Do You Know some black devils?
Ali: A Lot of them
Bingham: Has it become easier to be a Muslim in America?
Ali: Yes. When I first accepted the religion, you’d say you were Muslim, people thought that’s funny. Now there’s not half the trouble.
Bingham: How do you feel about different religions?
Ali: Rivers, Ponds, Lakes and streams. They have different names, but all contain water. Religions have different names but all contain truth.
Bingham: What does your faith mean to you?
Ali: [It] means [a] ticket to heaven. One Day we’re all going to die, and God’s going to judge us, [Our] good and bad deeds. [If the] bad outweighs the good, you go to hell; if the good outweighs the bad, you go to heaven.
[I'm] thinking about the judgement day and how you treat people where you go. Help somebody through charity, because when you do, it’s been recorded.
I go to parties, [see] good-looking girls, [I] take a box of matches with me. [I} see a girl i want to flirt with, which is a sin, so I [light] my matches, [touches his fingers]— oooh, hell hurts worse than this. Buy a box of matches and carry them with you. Put [one] on your finger and see how long you can hold it. Just imagine that’s going to be hell. Hell’s hotter, and for eternity.
Happy Ramadan to all!!
> Ok, let’s all listen to our residing scholar in Islam (Anand) break down the principles of Islam.
I never claimed I was a scholar. You can’t approach God by any sort of scholarship. It is useless to try to do so.
> Let’s throw out 1300 years of tradition and scholarship to an atheist living in Ohio, who seems to have all the answers to our purpose in life.
Why by afraid to throw out tradition? What is that to God? Nothing but dust. Take what is good and useful and leave the rest behind. We must be fearless in our search for Truth; there is nothing to afraid of our hearts are set on God. As for scholarship, that is completely useless. What need is there of scholarship if we are simply trying to uncover the natural religion that God has already placed in the heart of every man and woman? Neither Jesus or Mohammed were scholars as far as I am aware.
> an atheist living in Ohio
Read my posts. Do I really strike you as an atheist?
> Anand, let’s put it this way. Suppose, that nothing that we believe in existed. There was no God, no afterlife, nothing. We lived our lives to whatever pleased us.
I never suggested anything of the sort. What I am suggesting is that people look for the deeper meaning of religion. You will not know God by unthinkingly clinging to tradition or reading the Koran a million times. It is useless.
> But assume that we called the wrong bluff, and soon after our death, we realize that we ARE accountable for our actions in this life? Then what do we do? That seems like a pretty big bluff to lose, I would say.
Yes, the motivation here is fear. Do you really think God’s heart is touched by this sort of “love?”
Read my posts. Do I really strike you as an atheist?
Hmm….let’s take a look:
“When this shell begins to crack, you will see the real meaning of religion – all the words in all the religious scriptures of the world become meaningless.”
“I wouldn’t know since I am not a Christian”
These quotes point to either one of two things:
(1) you’re an atheist
(2) you won’t admit what religion you follow for fear of being exposed
Either way you put it, you will not be able to change the minds of anyone Anand. The history of Islam speaks for itself, both past and present. For however many years, Islam has been the fasting growing religion with thousands converting each year. SubhanAllah (glory be to God) I can’t tell you how many different Muslim converts I have met in just the past 4 years, all of whom had their own reasons for accepting Islam. However, there was an underlying theme that Islam simply makes sense. Submit to the will of God, and your life will be fruitful in this world and the next. And God reminds us in the Qur’an:
“Those who believe, and whose hearts find satisfaction in the remembrance of Allah. for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find satisfaction.” (13:28)
“Yes, the motivation here is fear. Do you really think God’s heart is touched by this sort of “love?â€
Again, you show your lack of understanding in even the basic beliefs of Islam. As Muslims, we believe that there must be a balance between the hope and fear of God. It’s simlitude is like that of a bird (Ibn al-Qayyim) One wing represents fear, the other represents hope. Too much hope leads to carelessness and neglect, while too much fear leads to isolation and stagnance. There must be a balance between the two. Only then will the bird fly with ease.
Anand, I, like MR adivise you to seek the counsel of Islamic scholars such as Sheikh Hamza Yusuf and Imam Zaid (ironically enough, both of whom are American converts)
“And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.” (2:23)
> (2) you won’t admit what religion you follow for fear of being exposedof my “religion.”
I didn’t “admit” my religion because nobody asked. But its essence is contained in post #37 if you you are curious; it is tne natural religion that God has put into the heart of every man and woman and those who have by given some measure of His grace will understand.
“….it is tne natural religion that God has put into the heart of every man and woman and those who have by given some measure of His grace will understand.”
Sorry, Jews don’t allow conversion into their community. Your mother has to be Jewish.
Like I said, Islam does not hold any pre-requisites to become a Muslim other than believing in the oneness of God and the messengership of his Rasul (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).
You are Muslim based on your belief in God, not the color of your skin.
> Again, you show your lack of understanding in even the basic beliefs of Islam. As Muslims, we believe that there must be a balance between the hope and fear of God.
When I wrote what you are refering to, I was replying to another poster who wrote, “…but assume that we called the wrong bluff, and soon after our death, we realize that we ARE accountable for our actions in this life? Then what do we do? That seems like a pretty big bluff to lose, I would say.” In that context I think it is clear why I wrote what I wrote; you are trying to find errors where there are none so that you can avoid thinking about what I have written.
In any case, I am certainly well aware of the “carrot and stick” approach that almost all religions created by man use to motivate followers. There is nothing unique or profound about this at all. It is the same exact principle that is used to train dogs, except with humans it is mostly (but not always) accomplished via imagination rather than actual rewards and punishments. Any number of belief systems can and do provide the same sort of motivation based on the pleasure-pain principle – whether any of these have any basis in reality seems very dubious to me however. Anyway, here is what I wrote in an earlier post:
“Look how much detail some religions go into hell, and the punishment of non-believers and apostates and so on – it is all about fear of hell and the rewards paradise. This is really nothing but a manefistation of base materialism, and human selfishness and fear projected into the cosmic realm. There is nothing spiritual about this at all.”
> Sorry, Jews don’t allow conversion into their community. Your mother has to be Jewish.
Why do you assume that I am Jewish? Because I quoted from Ezekiel? I am not Jewish. I am quoted from Ezekiel because he is one of the prophets of Islam (as well as Judaism) and he described the glory of God in a way that I consider to be very beautiful; the degree to which we experience God’s glory in this life is the degree to which we will experience it in the next.
umm Anand whats ur Religion? dont avoid it…
“umm Anand whats ur Religion? dont avoid it…”
He can come on here and say what he wants about Islam and everything else in this world, but can’t admit to his own adherence. I’m guessing it’s some hidden cult, as it’s not apart of the three major monotheistic religions that exist today. Hiding behind the computer for fear of being exposed is what I say… Well Anand, now you ARE being asked.
In that context I think it is clear why I wrote what I wrote; you are trying to find errors where there are none so that you can avoid thinking about what I have written.
No, that analogy simply asked to compare how you would handle the possibility of being accountable for your actions (on the Day of Judgement). However, Muslims approach that day with both fear and hope, as again, there is the hope that God will forgive as well. There must be a balance.
“In any case, I am certainly well aware of the “carrot and stick†approach that almost all religions created by man use to motivate followers.
This statement fails to look at the #1 miracle that Islam brings, and that is the Qur’an. Anand, you and every other individual who does not believe is directly questioned by Allah, The Mighty, to bring any scripture close to the Qur’an, as we see the words of Allah Himself (English translation):
“And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.†(2:23)
And as Allah says, you can’t, nor has anyone else in the past 1400 years. The lexical beauty and eloquence of the Qur’an is unmatched, and can obviously come from none other than the Creator of the universe Himself.
> He can come on here and say what he wants about Islam and everything else in this world, but can’t admit to his own adherence. I’m guessing it’s some hidden cult, as it’s not apart of the three major monotheistic religions that exist today. Hiding behind the computer for fear of being exposed is what I say… Well Anand, now you ARE being asked.
Yes it is a hidden cult – hidden by the Creator in the heart of every man and woman. Other than that, I don’t belong to any man-made religion, though I have studied many of them at one time or another. My religion is between me and God and I have no need for intermediaries whether they be priests, scholars, prophets or messiahs.
Anand you are one confused person.
Mujahideen Rhyder,
In a previous post you wrote:
> But in regards to the apostate hadith, the fact of the matter is that during the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the time of the 4 rightly guided Caliph’s (representatives) Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali the number of people that were killed by the apostate punishment was either 2 or 3.
But then when searching for information on the Afghani Chrisitan convert I found that you apparently wrote the following at http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2006/03/26/should-the-afghan-christian-be-killed/:
“He shouldn’t be killed until all measures of dawah has been taken towards him. That is my personally opinion.”
How can you seriously tell me that there is no compulsion in Islam after writing that? Honestly, before reading this I had the impression that you were a nice person and fairly moderate in your views. I was apparently wrong. An Islam that requires death for apostates, regardless of any amount of “dawah”, will never be compatible with the modern world. Period.
Mujahideen Rhyder,
In a previous post you wrote:
> But in regards to the apostate hadith, the fact of the matter is that during the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the time of the 4 rightly guided Caliph’s (representatives) Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali the number of people that were killed by the apostate punishment was either 2 or 3.
But then when searching for information on the Afghani Chrisitan convert I found that you apparently wrote the following at http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2006/03/26/should-the-afghan-christian-be-killed/:
“He shouldn’t be killed until all measures of dawah has been taken towards him. That is my personally opinion.”
How can you seriously tell me that there is no compulsion in Islam after writing that? Honestly, before reading this I had the impression that you were a nice person and fairly moderate in your views. I was apparently wrong. An Islam that requires death for apostates, regardless of any amount of “dawah”, will never be compatible with the modern world. Period.
Maybe that wasn’t your post however – please tell me that wasn’t your post.
> Anand you are one confused person.
Perhaps, but at least I have the sense to see that a religion, which on the one hand proclaims that “there is no compulsion in religion” and on the other hand ordains death for the apostate, is utterly illogical and inconsistent. What possible use is the Islamic scholarship that you recommend if one is bereft of simple logic, not to mention compassion and the rudiments of a moral compass?
Yeah there is no compulsion in religion for those who aren’t Muslim, but this guy was a Muslim already and left Islam, that is a different case.
Anand why do you even bother coming to this site and posting comments which no one really cares about. We already know you hate Islam by your words. There is no point in staying here, unless you are really lonely and sad and want to get out some frustration on here. I mean I can understand that since you have no religion or no faith at all.
> Yeah there is no compulsion in religion for those who aren’t Muslim, but this guy was a Muslim already and left Islam, that is a different case.
So what should a person like him do, fake it? Maybe he could secretly pray to Jesus five times a day while facing Mecca? What purpose would that serve? Do you really think that would please God? I’m sorry Bro, but you have apparently discarded a significant portion of your humanity for your religion and are no longer able to distinguish basic right from wrong. It is really a sad thing. You need to summon up some courage and do some serious thinking for yourself.
Whatever Allah says in the Qur’an and Muhammad (peace be upon him) said. I will listen with no questions asked.
seriously Anand whats ur POINT at the end of all this?? What is it that your trying attain?
TRUST me one day u’ll have all your answers!
my advice is think twice…
only reason why your here is because your lost, feel empty inside and your searching for answers. unfortunetly you are too blind to see the obvious and how beautiful our religion is.
a negative person will always see things negatively, period.
“Yes it is a hidden cult – hidden by the Creator in the heart of every man and woman. Other than that, I don’t belong to any man-made religion, though I have studied many of them at one time or another. My religion is between me and God and I have no need for intermediaries whether they be priests, scholars, prophets or messiahs.”
“Yes it is a hidden cult – hidden by the Creator in the heart of every man and woman. Other than that, I don’t belong to any man-made religion, though I have studied many of them at one time or another. My religion is between me and God and I have no need for intermediaries whether they be priests, scholars, prophets or messiahs.â€
lol. Anand, you truly ARE lost.
> Anand why do you even bother coming to this site and posting comments which no one really cares about.
I am deeply interested in religion and enjoy talking about it. I am also trying to understand the mindset and perspective of fundamentalists.
> We already know you hate Islam by your words.
No, I don’t hate Islam. I may disagree with various aspects of it, but I don’t hate it. Actually there are some things about Islam that I agree with, e.g. I don’t believe in the Christian idea of the trinity or that Jesus was the son of God, etc., and I also think the tradition of charity in Islam is laudible (though I think it should be universal and not restricted to the ummah.) On the other hand I don’t think Mohammed was the last prophet, nor do I believe that Jesus was the result of a virgin birth (something which both Christians and Muslims believe, which in fact likely has its roots in pagan mythology.) I also don’t believe there has ever been, throughout all history, any revelation from God to man that was untainted or complete. That is why I think it is critical to rely on the gifts of reason and commonsense that God has given us – that, and the natural gratitude arising in the human heart for the Creator are the surest guides to lead us to happiness and the abundance of His grace.
LOL! u all seem very passionate about relegion…
so tell me…
where have u all learnt to be soo persistent and pointless?
Jesus was created just like Adam was!
http://www.sunnipath.com is a great resource to learn more about some of the interesting points you have raised Anand.
I suppose in the end however, if we limit ourselves to ink and paper (or in our case, zeros and ones), we will learn a great deal about Islam, as it seems you have. But if complete understanding is what we hope for, I feel that can only be found by being among them. Until then, are we not just trying to tie pieces of information together to prove a point? There are many alive today, who if one has a sincere intention in one’s heart between them and God, God will lead them to in order to learn more.
But the intention has to be pure, it must not be clouded by pre-concieved notions. I believe if we all took this approach, we would learn alot more. I like what you said about your religion being between you and God with no intermediaries, that is the best place to start. But it is by no means, Anand, the place to finish.
So happy journies, I hope you’re pleasantly surprised with what you find.
Your fellow traveller trying to reach God.
Ramy
Toronto
> I like what you said about your religion being between you and God with no intermediaries, that is the best place to start. But it is by no means, Anand, the place to finish.
No, that is precisely the place where we finish. Before that however, guidence taken from teachers and scriptures can be helpful as long as we use our commonsense and discrimination and have the courage to reject those things which are either useless or become useless over time. Sadly, many people in religion wrongly equate the tenacious clinging to religious dogma as a sign of courage and faith, and thereby forfeit their commonsense, discrimination and humanity.
wow, subhanallaah, MR, you definitely got a natch for attracting interesting folks.
So Anand, you are Jewish guy by upbringing/birth spending your time either in jail or in a psychiatric institution after you finished uni. I figured it all out. You are confused but you are inclined towards christianity but dont want to convert, however, you are in the Midwest Bible belt area. Good job, so you decide to bash muslims and come on their website after reading a “koran” and some seerah and some ahadeeth. Good job.
Oh wait scratch that you are chrisitan indian, how could I not see it. And you hate to see muslim indians and now you are not so sure about christianity anyways(two guesses, one of em is bound to be correct, lol).
first of all it is Qur’aan not koran.
All personal attacks aside, as for as apostasy rules go in Islaam, are the same as in Judaism and christianity. Same as punishmenet for Treason in the US, no biggie here anyways.
And one best example: A christian man converted to islaam and was scribe for the Prophet, then he left islaam and become christian again and later said that he wrote everything from himself. He died a natural death, was not punished, but God punished him as his comrades buried him in his grave, the next day the grave was unearthed adn they kept burying deeper and deeper but the earth refused to accept his body due to his lie against the Messenger and God.
If you truely believe in God then the hatred to wards islaam would not stop you from embracing the religion,then the ficklenss of muslim humans will not stop you from embracing islaam.
But the problem is do you really believe in God, you seem insecure in your belief and that is why you have to prove your points to a bunch of muslim. Also the fact you are a brown indian christian and you get rejection from racist white midwesterner christians(a possiblity or even if you are jewish same reaction).
It is not even about happiness, it is about contentment and lack of it causes you go to go other folks website and bash them.
So find your contentment, convince us without bashing us.
And get out of that institution, become a Jew for Jesus, they are pretty good except totally christian, I tell ya. Or go back to India, the christian indians got nice monastaries and are treated better than muslims there even though muslims are in majority compared to the christians(Just kidding with the last run-on sentence).
and oh yeah as Tom said, chill yo!
> …as for as apostasy rules go in Islaam, are the same as in Judaism and christianity. Same as punishmenet for Treason in the US, no biggie here anyways.
Israel is the only Jewish state in the world and it does not sentence people to death for leaving the Jewish faith. Ancient judaism may have prescribed death for apostates, but I think you would be very hard pressed to find a Jewish person today who would support that. Certainly Jesus never taught death for apostates and indeed such a notion is completely antithetical to his teachings. And your comparison with U.S. treason laws is irrelevant and illogical as giving up your U.S. citizenship and moving to another country is within your rights and certainly does not constitute treason.
> And one best example: A christian man converted to islaam and was scribe for the Prophet, then he left islaam and become christian again…
Are you speaking of Abdullah bin Saad? I don’t believe he was a Chrisitan – he followed the pagan religion of the Meccans. He was one of several people whom Mohammed ordered to be killed on the day Mecca fell (even if he had taken refuge at the Kabbah.) Yes, he was eventually spared, but the accounts in the hadith do not seem to paint this as some great act of mercy on the part of Mohammed. He was spared because none of the Muslims present at the time stepped forward to kill him; Mohammed actually scolded his followers for their inaction.
> But the problem is do you really believe in God…
What will belief give you? Do you really think God is so insecure that He will be upset if you don’t believe in Him? You are transferring human emotion and human insecurity onto God. God does not care whether or not you believe in Him. He is eternal and complete. What we experience of God in this life is what we will experience of God in the next. Belief is only useful only insofar as it makes us receptive to the experience of God in this lifetime. If we never go beyond belief and experience God then that belief is worthless.
one of the main differences between us muslims and other religions, for example the jews. is asking too many questions considering the “ayaat” & “hadiths” and wanting explanations for every single detail of its context, always wanting to find a way out or a flaw… this is faith! we simply obay what god wants… with NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
Deliver A Messiah “Mistaken Identity” By Agron Belica
Hello
Very interesting information! Thanks!
G’night
WoW!!! Awesome TiTle
DELIVER A MESSIAH MISTAKEN IDENTITY BY AGRON BELICA- THE AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK MADE HIS POINT, AND BOY DOES HE BACK IT UP… iT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE MUSLIM WORLD WILL DEAL WITH THIS BOOK.. THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ACCEPT THE THEORY OF IT BEING OTHER THAN JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS, AND FOLLOW THE SAME IDEA FOR SO LONG THAT IT WAS JUDAS ON THE CROSS.. THE AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK HOWEVER HAS GIVEN PROOF, FACTS, AND FIGURES OF HIS THEORY.. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THE SCHOLARS OF ISLAM STAND BY THIS THEORY OR NOT.. I AM TOLD THAT MUSLIMS REQUIRE PROOF FOR ANYTHING WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR RELIGION.. WILL THEY ACCEPT THIS NEW THEORY WITH THE PROOF, OR WILL THEY CONTINUE WITH THE JUDAS THEORY WITH NO PROOF?
ruby s, your right this is botha challenge to christians and muslims. what a book. the story is so different, and it all makes sense. I believe after reading this story that it was as the author calls him the son of zachariah on the cross. mind blowing info in this book. the distinction between the two -son of mary and son of zachariah. the author did a superb job. Looking forward to the next book. good job author agron belica
Assalmu3alaikum wrt wbk
Wait hold up, I cnt b bothered to read everythng on here, BUT, I DID read something with which I…hrm, want to stress:
ISLAM is ABOUT asking questions. Islam encourges the asking of questions. So, I say, go ahead and read more bout Islam. If Allah want’s it, the answer will always be found.
Wassalaam.
May Allah Bless You All.
Allah Hafiz.
deliver a messiah mistaken identity… o my god. good stuff. thanx a million.. great job! i advise to study this material, curious also as is ruby s and sandra, the feed back from the mullahs or muftas about it….. replicas’ wow. the story had a good flow. smart of the author to leave the more detailed parts of the book for the sequel.. thankyou imam zaid like your site a whole lot. ill pass it along. should i now say salam laykam. go islam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK DELIVER A MESSIAH MISTAKEN IDENTITY MADE IT QUITE CLEAR THAT HE WASN’T OUT BASHING ANYONES RELIGION.. I HAVE READ THE BOOK , AND QUITE FRANKLY HE MAKES GOOD POINTS ON CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE MESSIANIC STORY AS TOLD IN THE GOSPELS.. I WAS AMAZINGLY SURPRISED AS TO HOW HE USED HIS PROOFS NAMELY THE FOUR GOSPELS AND THE MOSLEM KORAN TO SUPPORT THIS THEORY OF JOHN BEING ON THE CROSS AND NOT THE CHRIST. IN ALL THE LITERATURE I HAVE READ PERTAINING TO THIS CRUCIFIXION THEORY BY ISLAMISTS, I HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED ONE LIKE IT. WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT THAT JOHN THE BAPTIST BEAR SO MANY SIMILARATIES OF JESUS. YOU KNOW I TOO AM LOOKING INTO THE KORAN MORE NOW. IT IS INTERESTING THAT THIS AUTHOR DOES NOT REGARD THESE TWO PROPHETS AS FAILURES (ONE KILLED ON THE CROSS) AND THE OTHERS (HEAD BEING CHOPPED OFF). THIS AUTHOR ATTRIBUTES SUCCESS TO THEM.. TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I’D RATHER REMEMBER THEM OF SUCCESS THEN FAILURE. SO MR SIMEON OR WHOEVER YOU ARE, I THINK YOU SHOULD RE-EXAMINE YOUR GOSPELS (RECORDS) AND FIND OUT THE TRUTH BEFORE CASTING SUCH VILE ASSAULTS ON A MAN WHO IS IN SEARCH FOR TRUTH. MAY THE HIGH LORD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.
Deliver A Messiah mistaken Identity
DELIVER A MESSIAH MISTAKEN IDENTITY
Subtitle: LIBERATION DAY
By: Author Agron Belica
As an avid reader of the Holy Bible, how many countless times have you
drawn your own interpretations, and conclusions? How many versions
of the Bible have you read, comparing ancient manuscripts to modern
day Scripture? As an open minded reader in faith, and Christianity, has
your bias lead you directly to extensive research on the words, and
works of Christ? Is is possible that Jesus did not die on the cross?
Is the accepted view of the life of Christ incomplete? Are we thirsty
for the mysterious, thus craving for more information on what we
doubt, or believe is missing? Are we comfortable, and completely
satisfied in what we’ve learned in a lifetime about the son of Mary,
and the crucifixion? These are only a few questions that the curious
reader is left to ponder, after reading the cleverly written book,
“DELIVER A MESSIAH MISTAKEN IDENTITY.” As an educated scholar
on Christian history, Agron Belica fills the pages with contradictions
and controversy on the life of Mary,Jesus, and the crucifixion. The
author presents persuasive arguments on theory which surrounds
the events, and circumstances which took place during that era,
obtained from years of elaborate examination. The reader is left with
yet another crucial question, has prevailing powers camouflaged
the truth? The author’s comparisons are undeniable plausible, while
he sites religious documents to support his arguments, leaving the
reader amazingly surprised. I would recommend this book to all reader’s
who wish to explore facts, and seek additional knowledge obtained
through research about faith, and Christianity. In comparison to the
book “Holy Blood, Holy Grail” Agron Belica enlightens his open minded
readers to other possibilities as they absorb each bit of information
with a grain of salt. The author does not shoot the facts into the reader’s
face. Instead, he gently challenges the senses while using theory as the
key to open the door to other possibilities as we draw our own opinions,
and conclusions. “DELIVER A MESSIAH MISTAKEN IDENTITY” is
precise, and interesting. Regardless of which road the reader takes
on the teachings of the life of Christ, Agron Belica provides us with the
ultimate message that remains the same, eternal Blessings in the light
of Christ. Combined with that message and the author’s presentation
of research, if just one reader is left with any doubts, then the author’s
mission has been accomplished. This novel is an impressive, passionate
read, and is as Powerfully Moving as “THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST”
with Mel Gibson!
Geraldine Ahearn, A.I.O.M.
author of 6 books, CCRN
Author Geri Ahearn, INC.
Lifetime Member ABI Women’s Review Board