Allah knows best, but in my opinion, these scholars really need to watch what they say. It’s pretty sad and crazy that the UK media went really deep into these masjids and talking with these scholars with secret cameras. That is ridiculous! Some of the quotes were taken clearly out of context, especially what Shaykh Khalid Yasin said. The other scholars, like Abu Usamah need to be more clear or say it differently then the way they he said it. He responded to this documentary. The video is at the end of this post. Watch the documentary and see for yourself.
Dispatches: Undercover Mosque
Part 1 of 6
Part 2 of 6
Part 3 of 6
Part 4 of 6
Part 5 of 6
Part 6 of 6
Abu Usamah’s Response
This is a clear sign from Allah that Muslim Scholars in Europe and North America really have to be careful of what they say or else any little misunderstanding can create a whole documentary on that and generate more hatred from the non-Muslims and Islam. I was looking at the comments on YouTube for each video and it made me really sad. Allah knows best, inshaAllah!
May Allah (swt) forgive us all and protect us from fitna. Ameen!
54 Responses for "Salafi Scholars take a heavy blow in the UK"
This guy sounds almost exactly like Bilal Philips in his accent and modulation of speech. Only a more virulent kind.
This isn’t about ‘careful preaching’ - but a total lack of wisdom. You can’t really take those comments out of their context anyway.
Doublespeak all over the place - he DID say to hate the kuffar, more than once. Then he says it’s hating their disbelief, not the people? What an idiot.
Wow! These videos and people are unbelievable! Most of those speakers were simply telling lies and speaking what they thought. For example, how women are un-equal to men which in the quran, it is stated that men and women are equal and should be treated with the same respect. Another thing about some of those speakers were how they said one or more extreme statements, and then they deny saying any of it (meaning they were lieing). Most of these people talk about how some muslims are commiting sins by following western laws, when they themselves are commiting even larger sins, which are telling lies and spreading the message of hate, discrimination, intolerance etc. All of these things are in the quran and Allah tells us to avoid. I could go on forever but lets just leave it there.
May Allay forgive their wrong doings and guide them and us to the right path. Ameen.
Haha, does it say that in the Quran? If you want to know more about men, women and equality, go and hear some of Khalid Yaseen’s stuff, the whole concept of equality in the western sense, between men and women, as he puts it, is ‘foolishness’ (I love that word). Why? Because they are different…though of course, in the eyes of Allah, they are equal.
And whether they sin or not I dont think is the discussion, I dont think it concerns us either to be honest…its like we are almost judging their intention. Yes some of the comments made were very dodgy…but most of it seemed fine, and did seem taken out of context…
Who cares what the westerners think? I didn’t hear him say that. Isn’t it their fault that it’s taken out of context? If they didn’t uderstand what they old man was saying, had they not had the right and time to ask him about it? Besides, this whole “out of context” thing doesn’t make any sense to me.
Wow. Kinda scary.
Where did Abu Usamah study and how long?
May Allah protect us from the Cancer of the Wahabis/Salafis, Ameen.
Amir, do you know if Abu Usamah named his son (Usamah) before/after 9-11?
check out this weekend’s special by Christiane Amanpoure (a very respected journalist) on The War Within Islam: (About Young British Muslims).
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/siu/shows/war.within/
Yea this guy is just trying to cover his behind. We should stand up against extremists and terrorists. They are the reason we are in a pitiful state. All they do is teach us to hate and kill. “We hate the kuffar, whether you are from britain.. bla bla bla” . sounds clear to me.
“Bin laden is better than a thousand tony blairs because he is a muslim”.
“If he neglects his prayers he is a kaffir. if he dies like that you must bury him like the kuffar”– this reminds me of the Khawarij. This guy is an extremist. The sahabah waged war against people like him.
Assalamu alaikum
With all due respect, this isn’t a “salafi” thing. A lot of what was said in the video was actually taken out of context by the media or was phrased very inappropriately by the speakers. Nothing I gathered from the speeches condoned terrorism. Theres a huge difference between questioning the ethical foundations of liberal democratic capitalism and espousing the violent overthrow of a government. One is a philosophical inquiry whereas the other is a political action.
As Muslims, we need to liberate ourselves from this type of discourse. It is not about Salafis versus Sufis or about Saudis versus Western Muslims. The discourse about “Moderate” versus “extremist” Islam is very heavily influenced by the political establishment. The terms “moderate” and “extremist” are defined by the Shari’ah, not by the likes of Fox News and what not.
May Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) grant our Ummah hidayah. Ameen.
masalama
Thank you jinzaman. My sentiments as well, we cannot allow the western media to set the discourse within Islam.
I wasn’t making this a Salafi thing. My main point is that any Muslim that is speaking publicly really has to watch what they say carefully.
Thats the most shocking thing about this program, the fact that it is dividing Muslims. If anything, this program should have screamed to Muslims, the only way you are going to survive is by sticking together…
But there you go…out of interest, how many of you above are from the UK?
MR,
I understand that the statement’s that were made were bad for public relations. However, we as an ummah have been endowed by Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) to continue the mission of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) to deliver the message of Islam to all four corners of the globe. Our dut is to present our religion, even with its perceived shortcomings, to people. Our goal is not to get them to like us or to accept our way of life.
We need to move beyond this colonialist mentality that we need to seek acceptance from the White man (in the hegemonic sense, not the racial sense) in order to justify our existence.
Islam has existed for 1400 years. Whether Europe acknowledges this existence in the past, present, or future is irrelevant. We have our own way of life and we have the right and the obligation from Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) to implement it.
What these speakers said wasn’t false; it was true. They were at times overzealous and exhibited bad adhab, but the substance of their speech was in conformity to the Shari’ah.
Specifically speaking, the following points that were made are not controversial topics at all:
- Such as Jihad (the media portrayed the topic of jihad as synonymous with terrorism)
- The desire to have an Islamic government
- The ruling on apostacy (which is clear according to ijmaa)
- The ruling on beating children for not praying salah
- The ruling on hijab for young women (this is the fatwa of the Shafi’i madhab)
- The hadeeth of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) regarding women being deficient in intellect.
The problem was that the points above, which are legitimate concepts in traditonal Islam, got thrown in with the stuff about how the 7/7 terrorists were martyrs or how people want to establish Shari’ah in the West. I disagree with both of these points.
What we as a Muslim community need to do is really break ourselves free from these false dichotomies. The fact of the matter is that the West has no comprehension of Islam. Islam will not fit into its simplistic ideological manichean worldview. The attempt to portray Salafis (bad guys) and Sufis (good guys) is a very weak argument.
Take everything that goes on with a grain of salt.
What should we do about this? Nothing at all. The media thrives on controversy. They want Muslims to get outraged, to support these scholars or to lambast them. If we don’t do anything at all, we wont’ get stuck in this hegemonic discourse (i’m borrowing this term from Dr. Umar Abdallah). Let these fools babble about our deen as much as they went. Historically speaking, people have always invented lies against Islam or have attempted to subvert the spread of its message.
May Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) grant the believers strength. Ameen.
masalama
Assalamu ‘alaikum,
wow, impressed indeed by jinnzaman’s comments to say the least, you and yaser are on the money,
western media is definetly dividing us and that is the intent… of course… its our inclination to be close-minded and unaccepting in our differences that makes us lose, i mean come one, they have been misinterpreting scholars since before 9/11 … salafees or sufis r kufis or doofy or wahabis or nikabis,
al I can pray is may Allah unite us all against the people who hate islaam and the hidden enemies and cowards who don’t show their faces…
Wassalam,
A.R. “Aqeedah”
But you did by naming this post “Salafi Scholars take a heavy blow in the UK ”
Khayr, may Allah swt protect us all. Ameen
http://bambino.wordpress.com/2007/01/19/video-yasir-qadhis-take-on-the-dispatches-undercover-mosque-programme/
ps- How do you make a link?
Err, because thats what it was…salafi scholars…err da’eees receiving a heavy blow.
But I agree with Jinzaman, if we start following their thought, then we’ve solved nothing. Like he said, let them babble it out. But that doesn’t solve anything for this and nonetheless bringing up the video did have some benefits, lets us in the states have a glimpse of some stuff in the UK. And learn perhaps how to present Islam correctly… Allahu A’lam. Please keep me in your ad’iyyah.
Jinzaman & those who agree with you, I can’t believe you can actually say this was “bad public relations”. This is “bad Islam”. Please take a few basic courses in the Sciences of Islam before you comment. for ie. regarding the hadith of women being deficient in intellect. It is common for Salafis/Wahabis to take literal meanings. This was said in a specific case for a reason (no time for tafsir on this website), so please, seek a real scholar, and learn your deen. Again, may Allah protect us from the Fitna of the “teachings” of the Wahabis/Salafis, and guide them to truth, Ameen.
Assalamu alaikum
Luqman, you picked out one point out the list and ignored them. Please tell me, which non-Salafi Traditionalist faqih rejected jihad or Islamic government or the ruling on hijab and salah for young children or the hadeeth regarding women being deficient in intellect?
I’m not saying that we should act upon this hadeeth and that it is true, but this hadeeth is contained in the sahih books. Its not contained in the “Salafi” versions of these Sahih books.
Furthermore, traditional ‘Ulema such as Imam Ghazzali have been very harsh towards women as well. You should read what Imam Ghazzali wrote in the “Ihya Uloom al Deen” in the Book of Marriage. You should also read what the Hanafi madhab says with regards to the status of the marriage of a woman who gets touched with desire by her male relatives.
I, for one, have no problems with any of this. These rulings and more are not restricted to the Salafi manhaj, but exist within traditionalist circles. If you like, I can quote fiqh books from hardcore “Sufi” scholras such as Shaykh Nuh’s translation of The Reliance of the Traveller or Beheshti Zewar by Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi to make this point.
The underlying point is that we shouldn’t twist the presentation of our religion in order to please non-Muslims.
Furthermore, even if the points above were “Salafi” rulings, we simply cannot allow the Western media to define who “Good Muslims” are and who “Bad Muslims” are. This is a definition which exists in our Shari’ah.
Again, if you want to argue point-by-point about what Salafis believe and what Traditionalists believe, I’d be more than happy to oblige. I am not Salafi, but a deobandi.
Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) commands the believers to be just, even against someone who we hate. In the interest of justice, I cannot sit here and tolerate the misrepresentation of my brothers in Islam especially when the demonization is predicated upon rulings and statements that are entirely legitimate according to the Traditionalist paradigm as well.
I’m actually shocked that people are so blinded by sectarianism to openly support the demonization of their fellow Muslims without looking first to see if these rumors are true. This was not the sunnah of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) or his companions (radhi allahu anhum). Whenever a person brings a report, the first thing they would do would be to investigate its veracity and the veracity of the narrator before confirming it or spreading it. This is a news media outlet, we as Muslims should’ve matured to the point by now where we recognize the brazen hostility that the Western media has towards Islam. Instead of pausing for a moment and seeing if this report was an accurate portrayal of Salafism, we jump on the “Bash Wahhabism” bandwagon.
And don’t let me get started on this so-called “Sufi Muslim Council.” I didnt see anyone with any beards or wearing hijab in that so-called council. These people are not Sufis, they are modernists masquerading as traditionalists in order to acquire legitimacy for their deviant beliefs and actions.
Please, please, please do not be blinded by sectarian differences into ignoring the true opponents of our deen.
Be wise and be just.
masalama
Huh? Why wasn’t told about this spreading disease
Im pretty sure its not on CDC (Center for Disease Control)
As-salaamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatu,
Everything about this issue saddens me. On one hand, these shuyookh are being put under fire and the Muslim community is becoming more divided than it already is (which Allah knows we DON’T need right now); and on the other hand the non-Muslims are having their already negative images of Islam and Muslims reinforced.
May Allah protect us from all this fitnah, and grant us the strength and Imaan to recover from it, ameen!
Sheikh Yasir Qadhi has an excellent video response here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jwx7S8ugFcs
Your sister in Islam,
Mouse
I have just three points:
1) This was just the ahl-hadith organization they want after, it included Jamat-e-Islami, and I believe even Dar-ul-uloom. The only people that escaped this secret and sinister plot were the pro-regressive sufis and sadly, Abdal-Hakim Murad (who I did frankly did not expect to be in such a discourse, regardless of his venom against “wahhabis).
2) Pretty much all the scholars/tulab in the documentary (regardless of their manhaj) messed up. Plain and simple. The world is not the same anymore, old school needs to learn the lingo for the new world. You don’t have to throw away your principles, you just need to be careful of what you say, how you say it, and when you say it. Consider the audience, do they need it, is it practical knowledge, is it beneficial knowledge? For instance, the salaf did take great pleasure in discussing the day of judgement and discuss the stone/jew hadith with great pleasure either. Rather, the day of judgement was a frightful thing, not something to look forward to, as one of the speakers in the documentary makes it look like. In UK, child-beating is as huge taboo (not like the USA, where the southern red-necks would consider it part of daily routine). So, consider the circumstances. Finally, if you live in UK, you work in UK, you follow the rules of UK. Which means that they have a system of parliament, etc. Is it of any benefit talking about its replacement with shariah at THIS time? I mean, for Allah’s sake, we have the world sitting on our necks, and we want to talk about superiority? Where is the hikmah?
3) I still believe the name of your entry was in bad taste. I am surprised, but I have to say that jinnzaman was quite fair in his assessment. I must say I have gained a big notch of respect for you akhi. I do suggest that MR, please change your entry name for the sake of unity of Muslims against the non-Muslims, REGARDLESS of how much we disagree amongst each other.
I would urge you all to listen to Yasir’s video. I talked to him as well, and the message was clear… Muslims are Muslims. We can fight and quibble in our house of Islam. But, when someone from outside attacks it, and if we continue to fight each other, THEY will finish off the easy ones (the “Wahhabis”) first, and then they will clean up with the remaining. Well, perhaps they’ll leave the pro-regressives for some multi-culture flavor
So, don’t let this plot of divide and role (old, old British technique) play out as they wish to script it.
Musings of a Muslim Mind
Correction: “This was just the ahl-hadith organization”
i mean this was just NOT the ahl-hadith…
Oops…another important correction:
“For instance, the salaf did take great pleasure in discussing the day of judgement and discuss the stone/jew hadith with great pleasure either.”
the salaf did NOT take great pleasure
[seems i am leaving all the NOTS in my brain]
Allahumma ihdinaa siraata al mustaqeem
Ya Allah.
I have to agree with jinzaman again, he’s reall you ball with this one. The ’sufi council’ of England really doesnt seem very much sufi and is sketchy in general.
And I can easily see how Abdul Hakim Murad has been put in a peculiar position. He is very much traditional, yet if any of us came and came and asked him his academic position on the Wahhabiyyah Movement, he would no doubt give his position. I don’t hink he was aiming to help the program, he was just giving his opinion, pure and simple.
May Allah forgive us all and guide us all on the right path.
Please keep me in your ad’iyyah
Amad writes on his blog:
“I missed the part where the slimy Abdul Hakim Murad aka TJ Winters came in to support this slanderous program against Muslims.”
Such beautiful words directed to a well respected Scholar. It’s always ok for Salafis to call everyone a deviant, or drop the names of Ulema in a disrespectful manner. Yet you come to MR’s blog and ask him to change the title for Unity’s sake because the truth is offensive. Strange.
Anyhow, I agree with Yaser on his comments about the situation Sidi Abdul Hakim Murad may have been put in. It’s apparent many things the Green Lane Imams said were extreme and their tones were not in line with Islamic adab (manners), and were not said with hikmah (wisdom). I also agree with Jinz in that Channel 4 isn’t only attacking Salafis, this affects ALL Muslims. I thought the Imam who replied on Google Video did a good job of presenting his case, and we should pass this along to our non-Muslims friends who might’ve seen this and have negative thoughts about Muslims now.
A: I didn’t call him deviant, though I believe he has deviance and extremes of Sufism in his opinions. But, still, I reworded my blog entry, because it was diverting attention from my purpose. Which was not attack TJ, but to attack his role in this documentary. I asked MR to change the title because of reasons i explained incl. it being inaccurate since the documentary’s attack was wider than just on salafis.
IF you noticed, we don’t see Hamza Yusuf, Zaid or moderates like them, do you? I would be surprised to see that TJ didn’t just know the intentions here, but I would welcome a message from him saying so. At that time, I would be happy to back off.
Musings of a Muslim Mind
JUST WATCH THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwx7S8ugFcs
Can i just say one thing for all those ppl who dont live in the uk and dont no some of the uk speakers i advice you not to call them any names and to watch them self next time what they say! for example this person>7 Luqman says:
January 18th, 2007 at 10:36 pm | [ Quote ]
May Allah protect us from the Cancer of the Wahabis/Salafis, Ameen
may allah protect us from the cancer of the wahabis/salafis??? do you even no what the word salafi means and where it comes from !!! your very ignorant person , your comment tells me that you dont like any of the sheiks and students of knowledge on those videos , before you go around making embaressing comments i suggest you watch and learn from those sheiks and students of knowledges.
Ahmed, I think Jinzaman has already taken care of Luqman’s belligerency. Read the comments above.
For people like Jinzaman & Ahmed, it is very unfortunate that you cannot see a simple “wrong” for what it is. If you can see a video like that, and see nothing wrong with it, then I am simply speachless. Jinzaman, you wasted your time writing all that stuff in your message. I do not declare takfir on any Muslim, but I do pray for your guidance (and mine as well). and Yes, I do know what a “Salaf” is, and it is insulting to the “real” Salaf to call yourself a Salafi, for they would not behave like yourself or myself.
You know I didnt watch the program or anything completely. Just some segments. And my two cents is this.
First of all, isn’t this illegal to film without permissin? and who was playing who. The investigave reporters that got into the mosque were muslims, they were praying with muslims, and they were listening to the khutbahs and then recording them without permission. Totally not right.
I can speak for some of the black American imaams or da’ees as I grew up in Chicago and have seen how they give da’wah and how they talk, basically their methods of talking or their rhetoric is good for black folks only. Not for other folks, a white person, or a pakistan or even an arab person is going to be like, what? too much imagery, extrapolation, unnecessary detail, rhetoric.
I would call these guys da’ees at most but not scholars unless they are ummul-quraa educated or something or studied extensivey in Saudia.
I am a salafee and I can tell you that there are many many ignorant salafees out there(the masses) who are very narrow minded, retarded, and they even turn me off. However, I have not adopted salafee ideology for the people that claim to be a part of it. It suits my intellect, I am a scientist and I look at evidence rather than predominantly following a school of thought or scholars from one specific school of thought. This is why I am what I am, but be that as it may, there is a lot of bad rep among muslims against this group as well as non-muslims. And it is because a lot of converts adopted this strict ideology without giving much into the essence or purpose or spirituality behind the ideology or the methodology, as such they turned off a lot, alot of people. I am not turned off, cause I know what I am doing
As far as the preachers, like i said depending on ethnicity sometimes they are good for only a certain ethnic group. For example, to say a guy who doesnt pray is a kaafir, is true in the Shaf’iee madhhab and Salafees follow mostly Shafi’ee fiqh and Hanbali fiqh and this is the opinion they follow.
But the guy should have stopped at that instead of saying you have to bury him with the kuffaar, etc. that is extrapolating, pure Black style.
A Saudi speaker wouldn’t say that for example, at least in my opinion. And I have attended American Salafee conferences and I should have told the investigative folks to come over there and they would have heard what those speakers were saying. Not once did they mention about hating the kuffaar, cuase they were too busy talking about imaan, tawheed, patience, islaam. We aint got not time for hating, you know what I am saying.
Another thing, the jews also have a term for non-jews, how come nobody knows or cares about that,huh? Kuffar just means rejectors. ANd muslims who reject the blessings of ALLaah are doing kufr, what is derogatory about that? it is sad but not derogatory.
And as far as women’s intellect goes, how come there were no female prophets?
Let’s not forget that Hawwa was created for Adam and not the other way around.
Who cares if they say this and that about women,
history shows that women can be intelligent(not generally but specifically), for example: Aisha RA was called intelligent by Rasool SAW,
a woman corrected Umar Ibnul Khattab RA.
so chillax, yeah women are deficient in intellect and that is why they are payed less in the USA(and that is why in the USA there has to this date never been a female president). Muslims just speak the obvious, whereas everybody practices this but says the opposite.
Secondly, props to Jinnzaman and Yaser for saying what’s true and right, what they were saying is not foreign to traditional islaam but like i said the way the da’ees in UK said it was retarded.
Salafees are not khwarajee. The guy I dont know why (emotionalism or irrationalism) said OBL is better than Bush, what’s his point?
Salafees consider OBL and his gang as khwarajee and khwarajees are not cool, so not cool.
Luqman,
I’ve openly challenged you in front of anyone to bring proof that the points I made above are restricted only to Salafis. Show me the rulings of any non-Salafi fuqaha who do not believe in Islamic government, jihad, the punishment for apostasy, the donning of hijab for young girls, or the punishment of beating for not praying salah as a child.
The burden of proof has shifted to you and you haven’t met it.
As I said before, I’m the furthest thing from a Salafi; you will probably not find a Deobandi who battles it out more with Salafis than I do. So please, show me how the statements made above are only a “Salafi” thing?
masalama
salamu `alaykum
Although I agree with Jinnzaman in generalities, the fact still remains that there is a specific method of addressing the public, giving fatawa, and preaching, all of which have been seemingly (for those who dont think so) forgotten here.
Regardless of whether one can argue for the correctness of the positions, one cannot argue for the correctness of the way it was presented to the public. Riff-raff khatibs and scholars spewing out emotional goddledygook is quite contrary to what the Shari`ah has prescribed. Let us be fair and look at both content and the procedures the shari`ah outlines in presenting such content and teaching it to the layperson. Read the works of adab al ifta’ and nahy al munkar and you will have some idea of what I am speaking of.
Yes, image is an issue. Islam does not ignroe positive image, and striving to maintain that image. The prophetic sunna and the actions of the `ulema throughout the ages attests to this. `Abdullah ibn Ubay is one example that comes to mind immediately. This is not “giving into the Kuffar” or the “whiteman”. Nor is it “twisting” the truth for anyone. It is furthering the interest of Muslims and the name of Islam with wisdom and tact.
Neither is this sectarianism. Let us stop looking at the world as a dichotomy between the dark forces of Kuffar and the guiding light of the Believers. There are alot more nuances involved that cannot be grasped by such a simplistic understanding of the world. Even if a specific organization fishy in its nature brought this point to our attention why can one not ask: Is it true? What is the reality of the situation? What affect is it having on the Muslim populace? Is it a perceived problem? if so, how do we counter it? This can be done without necessitating it as something brought up specifically to please the “other side”.
It only takes a glance at Islam history, especially the development of the theological schools, to note that such an endeavour of looking back and furthering ones own tradition - by expounding further on its rules, guidelines, and truths - came out as a result of our coming into contact with those among the non-muslims who bombarded us with questions and accusations. This is nothing new at all. Its just a matter of how you look at the situation now. In a post 9/11 world, everything is seen as “us Vs them” - and so our ability to take such incidents as means to further our own selves is confused with selling our souls to the enemy.
Wasalam
Salman
Sorry everyone I was on vacation for a few days.
The big issue here is the title of the post. Honestly, it’s just a lable man. Let’s be real. Muslims did take a hit from this film, but it’s the Muslims that are prone to the ways of the scholars who spoke aka salafis. They took the heavier blow then any other Muslim, because now the media thinks they are the extremists in Islam.
So there is nothing wrong in my statement saying “Salafi Scholars take a heavy blow in the UK”. They did. What’s the big deal? Let’s be real.
“who was playing who. The investigave reporters that got into the mosque were muslims”
Nope, Hindu.
Btw, I am a different Luqman. Perhaps I should use a different name.
Luqman, Fear Allah!
“May Allah protect us from the Cancer of the Wahabis/Salafis, Ameen.”
What kind of ABSURD statements are these? Do you think the Prophet (sw) would approve of you saying that if he heard you? What about the unity of the Muslims coming first? Fear Allah!!!
[…] Salafi Scholars take a heavy blow in the UK […]
Most of what was shown was taken out of context. There were a few comments that were unwise though and yah scholars/daees should think about what they are saying before they speak. Also salafis werent the only ones taking the blows (so was jamaat islami) but obviously knowing the media they like to portray everything on the “wahhabis”. And i was wondering did abdulhakim murad come out and take back what he said?
yea mean..did U watch that “The War Within” documentary on CNN 2 days ago about Islamic extremism in Britain. It was pretty whack..but I think it highlighted what just a few fruitcakes can do to screw it up for the enitire Muslim community
Look at Umar Lee’s commentary
the last time i rememeber the word fruit cake was another word for a homosexual man asim you lack ikhlaq!!!! how can you sue that word against brothers!!! fair enough they said somethings you wulnd agree with but i dont think the deserve to be called fruit cakes!
excuse me????? seeker? isit me or ppl on this website have such bad ikhlaq!!!!! the words they use against muslim brothers is just shocking this is sign of unislamic manners!!! This is exactly what the media wanted for you to speak out against your brother!!!
So you would rather lick the Kuffars behind and turn your brother in MUNAFEEQ!!!!!
UMM HELLO PPL!!! how do u know that those scholars or imans said that!! hello at the RIS they even told u why u weren’t allowed to video tape the speeches!! because stupid will take them and use some kinda technology to change what they said into something bad ( n yea u can do that.. n u wont b able to tell if someone did) !! n then putt it on the news!! this is reali sad! like u don’t reali know if they said all that.. jeez.. n if they did…well then i donno..
Haha. how surprising…abdul hakim murad(the agent) is right in the middle of this. he was probably the undercover dude in the mosque. When they interviewed him, they didn’t need to hide the cameras, they probably have his number on speed dial, along with the other two progressives they kept showing.(irfan & taj)..this is sad.
Ask any scholar, salafi or not, about any of the statements made, and he will tell you that there was nothing wrong with them. The UK is afraid of the “real dawah” going on in their country that is bringing non-muslims to Islam in the hundreds if not thousands. The muslims over there are doing an excellent job, with the exception of a few bad apples (ie.ALM)
MashaAllah look at his bio. He learned from the likes of SH. Uthaymeen(ra). May Allah protect and preserve him. But we want the western media to tell us how we should view our own shuyookh…
Abu Usamah (born March 4, 1964) is one of the main Imams at Green Lane Masjid in Birmingham, England.
Abu Usamah, Khalifah At-Thahabi was born in Paterson, New Jersey, the youngest of 5 children. He was raised in the hard-knock projects of Paterson until his family moved out to the better part of Passaic, New Jersey.
He converted to Islam in 1986 and applied to attend the University of Madinah as was the practice of many new, eager converts to Islam at that time.
He successfully completed his Bsc in Usool-Ul-Fiq and mastered the Arabic language. He had changed his non-muslim name to his more well-known Islamic name after his conversion. He was initially known as Khalifah, Abdur Rahman but with the birth of his first son he took on the title of Abu Usamah (Father of Usamah) and attached the last name of At-Thahabi as a reference to the Imam Ad-Dhahabi and on the advice of a Shaytk in Madinah. At -Thahabi means Of Gold.
After his graduation from the University, Abu Usamah traveled with Sh Ibn Uthaymeen and went to teach in the UK before returning to the US in 1996 in order to pursue his first position of Imam in Orlando, Florida. He left there in 1999 to be the Imam of a fast-growing Salafee community in the Germantown section of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
He left Philadelphia in 2001. He had a brief stint in Cleveland, Ohio, and ended his time as an Imam in the US with the position of Imam at the Islamic Center of Peoria in Peoria, Illinois.
Abu Usamah found a new home in the UK, and became one of the Imams at Green Lane Mosque in Birmingham, UK.
I noticed no body seemed to take exception with the comments about jews and christians. They were described as the vilest of creatures which comes from the quran. they are dirty and to be despised and your children should not play with unbelievers children.
Why is it that some muslims cant as luqman suggested object or condemn evil words and actions. Usama is a racist jerk, who propagates hatred and violence. You had that dear old man saying such vile things and you all worry about the unity of muslims and as usual blame it on the western conspiracy.
the colonialist/imperialist label you place on the west is a mirror image of the spread of islam throughout the world. You must speak arabic, and pray facing mecca. You praise arab customs, and only expect spound muslim education in saudi arabia. By doing these things you dont deny the white culture, you deny the culture of all races and their history.
The headline for these videos should have been Islam takes a hit, and so does the world. but MR and the rest of you obviously dont see the forest for the trees.
Open your eyes and embrace universal values of freedom. Muslims who wish to live in democracys while living a lifestyle that is considered righteous according to the dictates of shariah should look to the amish in north america as an example.
This desire to impose islamic values on the rest of us, is what is getting you in trouble. isnt that obvious!
Wow….very interesting comments, from left to right and a few in the centre.
Funny how Salman Rushdie is honoured but most importantly protected for his blasphemy because the right of FREEDOM of speech/expression must be preserved at any cost. This right includes insulting others with distasteful remarks or even lies.
Point is, its a RIGHT which everyone must feel free to use.
When its directed at Muslims, it MUST be preserved and defended.
When its used by certain muslims i.e. Some of the “hate” from the people in the video documentary - it must be condemnded instantly and thoroughly. Yes the difference is, their (the people on the video) hate may incite violence etc but even the non-violent stuff MUST be shunned and condemnded.
Muslims cannot be a part of the same game, cannot play the same cards as the non-muslims when it comes to abusing Freedom of speech and expression. They will be shunned, condemned and their religion disparaged as usual, regardless of how closely they follow their religion or are to it when it comes to their utterances.
My view? WHY offend people, especially deliberatly and knowingly? Why not live in peace, promote your own views but dont insult others. Ever heard of contructive criticism? Can be done without insulting. Afterall that is how atheists and leading God-believing scholars debate. They dont bash each other by saying “You dont believe in God?! you foolish piece of $%£$”$&! [fill in the gap with as much filth as your heart desires and produces]”
[…] that hit famous Muslim speakers like Shaykh Abu Usamah, Shaykh Yasir Qadhi, Shaykh Bilal Phillips, Sha… & others and then Sh. Yasir and Sh. Bilal responded with this. Well looks like the UK police […]
Leave a comment