The End - 2000 to 2009


So you probably can see I took down my previous post talking about how the Taliban were wrong for kidnapping the 23 Koreans. The reason being was that someone commented a link to the above video which made me conclude that this could have been a reason of why they did it. Knowing how Muslims behave (Danish cartoon incident), this would obviously piss off many Muslims and the Taliban leaders in Afghanistan.

The importance of not jumping to conclusions and saying things out of context

I myself am at fault for this. I read the story of how the 23 Koreans were kidnapped and the state of there health from various news reports (unbiased reports according to me). It is very hard to get the most precise and unbiased news reports from areas like Afghanistan and Iraq. Sometimes it’s hard to pick sides or even see what is right and what is wrong. As Muslims we are taught to give our brothers and sisters the benefit of doubt to them for there bad deeds, but we are also taught to promote good and condemn injustice and evils of this world. What exactly is the benefit of doubt and who defines what is injustice and evil whether it is done by Muslims or non-Muslims, it’s hard to tell. Only Allah knows in many cases.

In conclusion, I take back some of the things I said about the Taliban, becuase although I believe they did some things wrong, I have no right assuming bad things about them, because in reality, if my children were in that video saying those things, I don’t know what I’d do.

May Allah (swt) protect the innocent, reveal the truth and punish the oppressors either in this life or the next life. Ameen!


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  • 28 Responses for "The Korean Missionaries In Afghanistan & The Possible Reasons Why The Taliban Did What They Did"

    1. HN July 29th, 2007 at 11:00 pm

      I hate to say i told you so, but i told you so.

      i did like your reply to my post before, i do agree with what shaykh Hamza said, but these missionaries play unfairly. they go to these desparate people who have no hope and only offer assistance to those who come and listen to them. these missionaries are terrible terrible people who look down upon these war-ridden and desolate people, it was the same type of people who only a century ago came into africa and robbed the africans of their indigenous religions after their compatriots were finished raping their lands and resources. it was the same type of thinking that exterminated an entire nation of indians/native americans here on this continent. its very dangerous.

      after saying all of this, i still stand by what i said and do not condone the actions the taliban took. i highly doubt the Prophet, ‘alayhis Salams, would’ve acted in this manner which is why they do not have my support at all.

    2. Mujahideen Ryder July 29th, 2007 at 11:06 pm

      HN on July 29, 2007 at 11:00 pm said:

      I hate to say i told you so, but i told you so.

      i did like your reply to my post before, i do agree with what shaykh Hamza said, but these missionaries play unfairly. they go to these desparate people who have no hope and only offer assistance to those who come and listen to them. these missionaries are terrible terrible people who look down upon these war-ridden and desolate people, it was the same type of people who only a century ago came into africa and robbed the africans of their indigenous religions after their compatriots were finished raping their lands and resources. it was the same type of thinking that exterminated an entire nation of indians/native americans here on this continent. its very dangerous.

      after saying all of this, i still stand by what i said and do not condone the actions the taliban took. i highly doubt the Prophet, ‘alayhis Salams, would’ve acted in this manner which is why they do not have my support at all.

      I agree with you. What these missionaries do is really messed up.

    3. Ahmed Z July 29th, 2007 at 11:31 pm

      we only think its messed up because they’re christian missionaries rather than muslims giving dawa

      we also tend to look down on poor people alot, and we probably shouldnt. they arent really as stupid as many people seem to think, they are just uneducated.

      anyway, just use your mind. kidnapping and holding aid workers hostage and killing them. How convoluted do the justifications and excuses have to be to make that acceptable?? I dont know, cuz i didnt read them 😀

      ws

    4. Mujahideen Ryder July 29th, 2007 at 11:33 pm

      Ahmed Z on July 29, 2007 at 11:31 pm said:

      we only think its messed up because they’re christian missionaries rather than muslims giving dawa

      we also tend to look down on poor people alot, and we probably shouldnt. they arent really as stupid as many people seem to think, they are just uneducated.

      anyway, just use your mind. kidnapping and holding aid workers hostage and killing them. How convoluted do the justifications and excuses have to be to make that acceptable?? I dont know, cuz i didnt read them 😀

      ws

      We live in a messed up world.

    5. junaid from the bronx July 30th, 2007 at 12:04 am

      even if they are giving dawa the wrong way, that doesn’t mean they need to be held hostage or killed. if the Prophet was here, I’m sure he would have been far more tolerant.

      and another thing.. we only see the kids in that video. I don’t know about anyone else, but I didn’t even catch a single glimpse of the korean people. neither can i verify those people are singing in korean, nor if the subtitles at the bottom are correct. we don’t even know when this video was recorded.

      once someone has all these issues resolved, gimme a call.

      worst case scenario, even if these kids are singing about jesus being they’re savior, it’s not like they have any idea what they’re saying. in their hearts they are still muslim that go home to their muslim families where they are learning to pray salah and read quran.

    6. naveed July 30th, 2007 at 12:26 am

      i think in general from the news we hear and the environment we are in, subconsciously a lot of us think the taliban are a bit misguided and are the first to assume what they do is wrong… however i think the lesson here is to realize that they are our muslim brothers and to give them the benefit of the doubt first and foremost, especially considering that most of the media leads us to believe certain things about them which are in many cases not accurate, but we have been influenced by them whether we realize it or not.. however i also think its importnat to condemn muslim brothers if what they are doing is in fact wrong.. that way we get some credibility in non-muslims eyes and maybe that in itself is good dawah seeing muslims who are honest about different situations rather than just attack and blindly defend certain muslims even when they are wrong.. actually i duno what im talkin bout, im just on amirs blog cuz im avoiding studying for my finals

      WS

    7. WeeZie July 30th, 2007 at 2:55 am

      Brothers and Sisters,

      As a Muslim, of course it is disconcerting to us all that these missionaries doing this stuff…but a few points do need clarification. Whatever your view, there are some facts that are hard to refute.

      First, as an Afghan, I can tell you that Afghan children do NOT understand Korean. Plane and simple. The work of the missionaries should be scrutinized but lets not assume that these kids understood what they were saying.

      Lastly, the Afghan government AND the tribal elders have asked the the Taliban to ATLEAST release the women hostages. They argue, and I agree, that Islam prohibits doing harm to women. NOW, in response, the Taliban have replied that men, women and children are fair game. I know we all have our denominational allegiances and the like but I do not see what kind of Islam allows people to kill children. Certainly not the Islam of Saladin.

      those are my two cents on the matter.

      Masalaama

    8. WeeZie July 30th, 2007 at 3:01 am

      For the brother that said the Taliban should get the benefit of the doubt because they are our Muslim brothers…I say that the MAJORITY of the people the Taliban have killed are our brothers as well. There is NEVER a justification for a Muslim to kill a innocent Muslim.

      I understand that the west has alot to do with this ordeal in the Muslim world…but watch Afghan and you will get a glimpse of what is happening. Cutting of the heads of Taxi drivers and newspaper interpreter’s cannot be given the benefit of the doubt.

    9. Mujahideen Ryder July 30th, 2007 at 8:08 am

      WeeZie on July 30, 2007 at 3:01 am said:

      For the brother that said the Taliban should get the benefit of the doubt because they are our Muslim brothers…I say that the MAJORITY of the people the Taliban have killed are our brothers as well. There is NEVER a justification for a Muslim to kill a innocent Muslim.

      I understand that the west has alot to do with this ordeal in the Muslim world…but watch Afghan and you will get a glimpse of what is happening. Cutting of the heads of Taxi drivers and newspaper interpreter’s cannot be given the benefit of the doubt.

      I totally condemn Muslims killing Muslims. I only say give them the benefit of the doubt in this situation, because of this specific circumstance where we don’t know what really happened.

    10. AbdulRahman July 30th, 2007 at 9:56 am

      Jazak Allah khair for posting this up. I also assumed it was some extremely stupid act of unnecessary violence. Now while I think it’s still immoral, I can still know the reasoning behind it.

    11. salaam July 30th, 2007 at 12:27 pm

      Horrible just horrible this pissed me off

    12. salaam July 30th, 2007 at 12:54 pm

      If this is indeed true and those koreans intention was to go out there and try to corrupt the minds of the very young then what happened to the koreans is well deserved i rather the koreans come in the country and a kill one or two children then to corrupt several childrens minds like that…We muslims take our relgion serioulsy, thats why we take extreme measures sometimes to prove it, indeed islam is not like any other relgion, You saw what happened with the danish cartoon, did the muslims take that lightly? or did they take it to the streets to express there anger? If anyone mocked Jesus(peace be upon him) how will the christians react to that? well the answer is simple, they wont, why? well christians make fun of jesus(peace be upon him) all the time I mean look at south park they make fun of Jesus(peace be upon him) all the time in fact he is actually a charachter in the show..I want to end off by saying may Allah protect the muslim ummah, may Allah strengthen our ummah,May Allah increase our ummah and may Allah keep away missionaries from corrupting the minds of our brothers and sisters wasalam 3alikum waramtilah

    13. haroon July 30th, 2007 at 2:00 pm

      i agree with salaam, maybe we should throw you at the creators of south park to show them how seriously we take things. and above all, let’s not take seriously any of the restrictions about the use of force in islam, cuz i always find that a bummer, talk about a party-pooper. let’s just take the important stuff seriously like smashing people’s private property like their car or their mcdonald’s franchise or their anything they own at all that is near where you are really, realy angry at the time. once it’s all done, you’ll definetly appreciate the fruits of your labour, by destroying the workplaces or the method of getting to work of people who had nothing to do with the thing that made you angry. also, i don’t think that it makes any sense to say that since you have explicitly justified the killing of other people, that you should in turn justifiably be killed, cuz following things to their logical end make me tired, let’s just stop and rest at “killing missionaries is ok, including women” because there’s a nice breeze here.

    14. Sulayman F July 30th, 2007 at 2:57 pm

      Sister Yvone Ridley, who was captured by the Taliban in 2001, said that she was placed in the same jail as the missionaries. She said she found them so very annoying and hated it; thinking this was some weird way the Taliban was torturing her.

      Her lecture about the experience in Afghanistan (and her later trip to Islam and Q&A) is online in audio form: http://www.icnyu.org/services/lectures.html

    15. Thomas Paine July 30th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

      Talk about jumping to conclusions. This is a grainy video that really could be from anywhere but let’s say it really is a video of the people we’re talking about. I wonder if some of you would condone killing muslims in non-muslim lands if they were giving dawa…oh wait, but since Islam is THE ONLY RIGHT ANSWER and you know this for a FACT, its not OK to kill muslim missionaries but it is OK to kill christian missionaries since Christianity is clearly not the ONE RIGHT ANSWER. What rationality! This is coming from people with internet access and I’d assume a modicum of intelligence. I’m muslim but I don’t look down on non muslims and believe I have some big secret they dont have access to. If you think that the taliban are right in doing what they are doing (instead of telling the koreans this is a no-no, or expelling them or maybe even learning about the concept of vaccinations so they dont need foreigners to fulfill basic needs), then I guess we all know where Islam is going to be going in the next 50 years…hint: its the opposite of up.

    16. Thomas Paine July 30th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

      So you think the only way to get someone to go to islam is by closing off their minds to every other point of view? You know what that’s called? It’s called brainwashing.

    17. naveed July 30th, 2007 at 10:44 pm

      thomas paine- habib qadri

    18. Khaled July 30th, 2007 at 11:05 pm

      bastards!

    19. egyptchick7 July 31st, 2007 at 2:54 am

      Naveed…

      Imma say “No”…Habib would be using much more “spohisticated and complex” words than “Paine” has used….He is studying for the GRE y’all :)

      I HIGHLY doubt it is him…but I’ll ask.

    20. Mujahideen Ryder July 31st, 2007 at 8:16 am

      egyptchick7 on July 31, 2007 at 2:54 am said:

      Naveed…

      Imma say “No”…Habib would be using much more “spohisticated and complex” words than “Paine” has used….He is studying for the GRE y’all :)

      I HIGHLY doubt it is him…but I’ll ask.

      LOL. I agree with ‘egyptchick7’

    21. zaki July 31st, 2007 at 11:13 am

      Thomas Paine on July 30, 2007 at 8:36 pm said:

      Talk about jumping to conclusions. This is a grainy video that really could be from anywhere but let’s say it really is a video of the people we’re talking about. I wonder if some of you would condone killing muslims in non-muslim lands if they were giving dawa…oh wait, but since Islam is THE ONLY RIGHT ANSWER and you know this for a FACT, its not OK to kill muslim missionaries but it is OK to kill christian missionaries since Christianity is clearly not the ONE RIGHT ANSWER. What rationality! This is coming from people with internet access and I’d assume a modicum of intelligence. I’m muslim but I don’t look down on non muslims and believe I have some big secret they dont have access to. If you think that the taliban are right in doing what they are doing (instead of telling the koreans this is a no-no, or expelling them or maybe even learning about the concept of vaccinations so they dont need foreigners to fulfill basic needs), then I guess we all know where Islam is going to be going in the next 50 years…hint: its the opposite of up.

      We don’t have Muslim missionaries. We have Tabliqis though.hehe

      Just like MR, I overlooked what the Korean missionaries do. BUT, it is still not right for the Taliban to kill one of them. Moreover, Taliban did not demand that there would be no more missionaries. They wanted them exchange for Taliban hostages.

      On the bright side, maybe there will be no more missionaries coming to Afghanistan.

    22. tr July 31st, 2007 at 2:54 pm

      gahhh, I hate this whole incident. It shows how weak muslim psyche really are. If people are dying of starvation. It nice and all to talk about how horrible it is for missionaries to offer wealth/food for conversion while chewing down a big fat kabab with naan. how ironic !

    23. ExEx Blogger July 31st, 2007 at 4:44 pm

      Well you know, NOW you know not to jump to conclusions and not put on that “dramatic” teary scene to emphasize your arguments. You know the Prophet peace be upon him and his family: ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??? narrated in Saheeh Muslim
      The translation is: It’s enough for the person to be liar when he goes and says whatever he hears.

      Now we’re not saying you’re a liar, but i’m just showing you the severity of spreading whatever comes to us. May Allah forgive us all.

    24. The Liberal July 31st, 2007 at 6:01 pm

      Meanwhile I’ve been known for some rather strong rhetoric at times in the past, I tend to disagree with just about everyone. People are so busy taking polemic standpoints and behaving as partisan pundits that they forget not only the complexity of the issue but the greater truths to be garnered. Missionaries irrespective of their religious foundations do have genuine qualities we should aspire to such as charity, fellowship, sincerity and compassion just to name a few. Amir though not a missionary, has helped me several times and I cant attribute that to anything other than to the religious values imparted him during his upbrining. Besides I think you simply cant find as many Peace Corp or UN volunteers as there are missionaries. Do zealots have bad characteristics? Sure they do, so does everyone and we all need to just focus on ourselves, may be some of us once we’re developed enough in our awareness will then join something like UNICEF and even then we wouldnt be entitled to mouth off. I do believe its of dubious value to engage in these sort of discussions, largely the points that are made are irrelevant, false or moot. This is not to say that I dont have an opinion on what happened but unless theres any way to help the living or the dead, whats the point of hashing it out and condeming people? I hardly think the the doers of these actions are going to read this blog and i hardly think that the families of those to whom this was done will either though frankly they dont deserve to be insulted.

    25. The Liberal July 31st, 2007 at 6:40 pm

      I couldnt resist commenting with me being mentioned and all but I hope you all know that I’m trying really hard to only blog in what I think are good ways and I hope I wont get involved in any more blog debates. I suppose that since I have people who defend me without me even knowing it, my own statements are superflous.

    26. naveed July 31st, 2007 at 11:18 pm

      i apologize to habib qadri

    27. Thomas Paine August 1st, 2007 at 6:25 pm

      Im flattered that my identity has led to much discussion. That was not my intention. My intention was to get across a point. And to some, no offense…but words arent just meant to spice up language. you really ought not to use a word just bc it happens to be a less frequently used synonym of the word you meant to use. It doesnt add more weight – rather it appears out of place and has quite the opposite effect.

    28. inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com August 4th, 2007 at 4:04 am

      http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2007/08/02/the-difference-between-suicide-in-islam-the-west/#comment-13008

      http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2007/07/29/%e2%80%9cmujahideenryder%e2%80%9d-aka-munaafiqeenryder-attacks-the-taliban-for-their-actions-against-the-koreans/

      http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2007/07/29/response-to-munaafiqeenryder-part-1/

      http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2007/07/29/response-to-munaafiqeenryder-part-2/

      http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/mr-has-apologized-for-his-words-against-the-taliban/

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