The End - 2000 to 2009

WARNING: Contains extremely foul language.

May Allah (swt) protect the innocent and remove the oppression from them. Ameen!

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  • 77 Responses for "America will never win in Iraq or anywhere in the Muslim world"

    1. awesome March 10th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

      I think its safe to say that in Iraq victory is approaching. The title of this post is America will never win and the truth is that America has already and will continue to win in many areas all around the world for some time to come. Anyone who speaks to the contrary simply hasn’t thought long and hard enough about what political influence is. Political influence is the sort of relationships brokered by Washington with South America, with Continental Europe, with the Brits, with the Chinese, with the Middle East and much of Asia. Is America without doubt? without fail? without setbacks? definately not but politics is a relatives game, not an absolutes game. Its funny that no one wonders why the axis of evil only contains 3 or 4 countries. … Its because everyone else is within the sphere of American influence one way or another.

    2. MR March 10th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

      @awesome – Okay your right, but I like my title! :-D

    3. anon March 10th, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    4. Dawud Israel March 11th, 2009 at 12:44 am


      I agree with the US soldier- Muslims are so useless. Amerka will give up on our stubborn and amazing knack for stupidity and cowardice. Muslims have such an inferiority complex lol.

    5. Sulayman F March 11th, 2009 at 2:10 am

      What a moron. Did his ranting actually have a point to get something done?

    6. nasiru March 11th, 2009 at 8:29 am

      alright, i’m just basing this opinion of the people i’ve met and just what i see. it seems to me that most iraqis are just docile people. they aren’t the killer instinct war mongers that propaganda would have us believe. i don’t see anything wrong with that. however it is extremely inconvenient for their own protection because if they can’t fight they’ll always be subject to those will.

    7. MR March 11th, 2009 at 10:27 am

      @nasiru – Forgot about Saddam already?

    8. Zecchetti March 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am


      If there’s no real resistance, haven’t they already won? I mean just look at the state of this “police force” – accepting training to run a new colonized Iraq for the colonialists!

      One place America can’t win is Afghanistan. Now THAT is what you call resistance.

    9. nasiru March 11th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

      nah MR, it’s people ike saddam they didn’t fight against. i didn’t know saddam but i know iraqis in general aren’t like him. he’s was allowed to do whatever with impunity. seems like that mafia complex where he maybe a bad guy but he’s our bad guy.

    10. Yahya March 11th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

      wow! ‘awesome’ with another good post!

    11. iMuslim March 11th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

      I wonder if the interpreter translated all the rude words?

      I am not surprised by the way in which the American spoke. He probably does that with his own soldiers all the time. I’m not trying to make excuses for him – but I didn’t see his use of swear words as being particularly disrespectful – just crude, and blunt.

      I can understand his frustration with the Iraqi Police. Ties to this militia and that will undermine any chance of security and stability, as there is little trust between men in the same unit. However, America is no stranger to the concept of the “dirty cop”.

      All that aside, some of his statements were extremely short-sighted. “I don’t see you in American towns”. Wha?

      No-one invited you to invade Iraq. You joined the Army voluntarily. The job involves you risking your life from time to time, on ill-fated missions concocted by your greedy, two-faced government, who see you as a number, not an individual. Big shocker, I know.

      American soldiers unleashed hell on the people of Iraq, and then they complain when they’re expected to clean up their own mess.

      That’s why you shouldn’t give public speeches when you’re angry. And doubly so when there is someone filming in the background. You’ll inevitably sound like an ass.

    12. awesome March 11th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

      @MR – I know. You’re title would sell newspapers and thats what titles are supposed to do.

      @ general audience

      Before America got to Iraq, they were tyrannized by Sadam, but back then no one really said anything about what was going on, because one arab colonizing several millions is okay. Before America got to Afghanistan, the taliban were colonizing millions but it was okay, because the taliban weren’t westerners, even if they sold their country to Pakistan for ISI subsidies.

      Its not about colonialism or imperialism or capitalist pigs or cryptofascism or any of the other terminology thats defined. Rather than defining ones posiiton as against something, its better to define ones position as in favor of something.

      If you favor justice, free will, etc. you cannot in good conscience support Sadam or the taliban. You will also oppose colonialism but you can see evils of all types that way. But if you proclaim that you are against imperialism you will ignore oppression and despotism when it comes from within a country.

      If someone came to your house and murdered your father, raped your mother and chopped off your brother and sisters heads, you would hardly care what the pretext was, be it God, Religion, Justice, Freedom or Democracy. Its important to get beyond the pretexts and look at the human lives that are effected and most importantly, it isnt about us in the west or the psychological impact imperialism has on us, such as inducing an inferiority complex. Its really about what happens to millions of people under despotism of every stripe including indigenous ones.

    13. awesome March 12th, 2009 at 2:00 am

      to paraphrase Hamza Yusuf, anyone who loves mujahideen theocracies should shove off and live under one. Don’t live in open societies and cheer for war lords. Thats exactly what the Left did in the US and Europe during the Cold War.

      They would cheer the Soviets and excuse their inhumane crimes saying all sorts of things from the media is tainted with capital imperialist bias to the violence is regenerative resolution of the internal contradictions of the late logic of capitalism or some other inane rubbish along those lines. Its really not complicated at all….its called the golden rule, what you would not have someone do to you, do not do so unto another. If you don’t want to live a certain way, dont recommend that others live that way.

      Please don’t cheer for a theocratic state ushered in by people all too ready to kill shias and others who are not like them, while you are sipping your starbucks lattee checking out the latest gadget on some commercial website on your computer. If its wrong to backbite a brother and to eat your brothers flesh, then can it be right to wish for him oppression and anarchy? to say to him, I will live in peace and security under a “kuffar” state while you should not live under a neocolonial state structured by a “kuffar” army. The degree of hypocrisy is so staggering its out of this world.

      Its okay to live anywhere in the west but to live in Iraq and hope that it prospers as a nation state is bad? To live in Saudi and not want the destruction of your own state makes sense but to live in Iraq and hope for stability is wrong? I genuinely believe that along side some of the good that was unleashed during the 60′s hippie rebellion, there was alot of bad also. I think alot of what arise from the “anti-whitey” and “anti-western” school of thought is simply stupid.

      You have to and I’m sorry to say this, but you have to be stupid to buy into the sort of rhetoric which says racism isnt racism when its done by anyone other than a white person or the west can never do anything right but when a non-western person does something wrong, who are we to judge, they have their own ways, and of course there is no shortage of contexts, traditions, understandings which we must use to get a “better” picture so as not to be prejudiced by our western lens yada yada yada, nonsense ad infitum.

      The saddest thing about intellectuals, academics in the 20th century is that most of them justified the worst crimes in human history using the most beautiful phrases and intricate concepts conjured up in history. Contemporary cheerers of the taliban and company are simply their heirs. To be intelligent is not synonymous with being anti-western or anti-white. If anything its a reflection of a narrow learning, a form of indoctrination all too prevalent in academia these days.

      People read a few things written by marx, camus, marcuse and fanon (or by muslim authors who draw from similar paradigms) and they’re ready to diagnose problems of every stripe and type. Reality doesn’t lend itself to Leftist thinking, be it of the marxist stripe or the third worldist jihadist variety.

      Reflect. Reflect. Reflect. Look at those who came before you. Certainly empires have risen and fallen. How? Why? What was the conduct of the people of that time? The wars of yesterday and the intellectual arguments of yesterday are here today again. Things don’t change. What you find destable in the excuses Leftists made for the vulgar disgusting Soviets, don’t engage in the same sort of double speak and conjecturing on behalf of Jihadists. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong, it doesn’t matter who does it. Its not about paradise or sharia anymore than its about the internal contradictions of capitalism or going from each according to his ability to going to each accoring to his needs. All of that is pure and absolute gibberish. What matters is what happens on the ground. Murder. Rape. Pillaging. Plunder. etc. etc.

      In the end its truly simple. What matters is human life and being able to spend the short period of time we have on this planet with relative freedom and tranquility. Cheering for exclusivity and intolerance simply misses that altogether.

    14. arabi March 12th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

      The Iraqi that was speaking toward the end was saying, “we were fighting for Iraq, but the Americans came with their planes and war machines and attacked us, and called us Irina terrorist”.

      And the stupid soldier responded by saying ” stop making excuses”

    15. awesome March 12th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

      An Islamic state brought about by Sunni Mujahideen would be oppressive in a country where Sunni’s are the minority. There can be no doubt about this. The islamicity or theocratic nature of the state is not its oppressive aspect. In a diverse population its not appropriate to establish an ethnic or a theocratic state, it often leads to problems. Iran has a quasi-theocratic state that has plenty of positives and is capable of being a responsible state (ie. responsive to the people) even if its not exactly responsive to its citizens at the moment. Like I said, its not a theocratic issue but a issue of establishing a state that corresponds well to society. Islam does not abrogate common sense or the human condition.

      My allegiance to God calls upon me to argue in favor of righteousness and wanting for my brother what i want for myself, it calls upon me to adhere to Truth and not to unreflective supporting the taliban or the sunni mujahideen or any other self-appointed representatives of Allah.

      We are not called upon to support tyranny simply because it is done by our brethren and we are called upon to reflect on history, to look at the way people have governed in the past and to try to avoid their mistakes. These are almost direct quotes and anyone familiar with the canon knows it.

      I’m not trying to play politics, honestly. I don’t believe democracy is perfect or everyone has to live in a republican nation state but I know that such a state is good for a diverse population, that history atests to this. I find it amusing that people want prosperity for themselves but morality police for others, people want wealth for themselves, but for others its okay to starve under the taliban, for themselves nice homes, fine cars but for others a war ravaged country in which the shias and the sunnis fight to the death, for themselves kaffir neighbors, kaffir employers, kaffir mayors, kaffir police but for others revolutions against so called kaffir neocolonialism, rejection of kaffir society. I think thats rich. I think thats fascinating. Thats the values and the double speak we need to question.

      I could be wrong but if I am, please let me know.

    16. awesome March 12th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

      My bad actually. You can believe what you want, its your God given right as part of your respite. I’m not here to change the views of everyone on the planet. The sincere seeker will God-willing reach the Truth and if not, its not God’s will, in the end we all return to God.

      take care one and all, peace.

    17. isa March 14th, 2009 at 9:49 am

      i realy do hope dat troop gets his punishment in the here after.
      he jus seems to be making the situation worse, he is inciting more hatred within the Iraqi police, which will not benefit them in the future, and may even bring more resisitance and terrorist like acts to the americans.

      swear down these types of troops with this rude attitude deserve to get shot. they r not really fighting nor defending for their country, they r just making it more of a target.

      though not all are, the majority of british and american troops are just simply murderers. & so are the other people who fight with silly excuses, lies, and unjust causes.

    18. Faisal March 15th, 2009 at 4:31 pm


      My bad actually. You can believe what you want, its your God given right as part of your respite. I’m not here to change the views of everyone on the planet. The sincere seeker will God-willing reach the Truth and if not, its not God’s will, in the end we all return to God.

      take care one and all, peace

      As a Muslim one has to do Dawah in a non-Muslim land. You are doing Dawah everytime you pray or fast. You are carrying the message of Islam around everywhere you go. You should rethink your views on Dawah here. Remember in the Day of Judgment your non-Muslim friends will tell Allah that so and so was with me and he/she never informed me or gave me any hints about Islam.

      Also, you are speaking from a secularist mentality. I no verse of the Qur’an and Sunnah from your commets.

      The Taliban and the Sunni Mujahideen are portrayed in the most biased manner via the western media. And why wouldnt they. Their countries are currently in war with Afganistan and Iraq.. imagine if they portrayed a single positive message about them and how the people would react to this.

      So in all, I would like you to go back to the Qur’an and Sunnah and use them as a basis for further comments. If you do that I would be more inclined to accepting your views, inshAllah.

      May Allah increase all of us in knowledge and give the Mujahideen the promised victory. Ameen.

    19. AnonyMuslim March 15th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

      MR, I’m curiuos as to why you based your comments on this video in particular? A US soldier disappointed in Shia troops he is training to combat Al Sadr’s terrorist army? Let me be clear and say I do not support the war or the occupation, but this video doesn’t seem very controversial to me. The US is training Shia Iraqi troops to patrol areas where Sadr’s terrorists have control – I’d be a little frustrated if those troops were collaborating or shirking their duties as well.

    20. omar al-kori May 3rd, 2009 at 2:18 am

      knowing that most of those murtad/munafiq iraqi police are shias (in fact probably all of them are shias), i actually agree with almost everything the american soldier has to say about the rafidha.

      the americans are open about their enmity towards islam and muslims. the rafidha shia (and the iraqi shia iranian/majoosi-funded police) hide their enmity (munafiqeen) and use that to kill innocent muslims (sunnah, the only islam is ahl ul sunnah.)

      may Allah destroy america and shiism ameen.

    21. Arab ‘Aribah May 17th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

      i would like to know where were these voices of dissent and calls for Jihad from muslims when Saddam was in power?…Saddam was one of the biggest Kaffers/munafig the umma has produced in it’s midst but i don’t ever recall any attempt by the Sunni Mujahideen to remove him…why is that?…because they are just as big a munafig as he was!….while Saddam and his Satanic regime were in power where were the Sunni or Shia Mujahideen?…where was the resistance?…..hiding like a bunch of wimps…then when the American troops arrived and swept aside Saddam and the Demons who supported him….all of a sudden we hear of the Jihadists……all of a sudden they grow balls after the main job has been done….a job which they had no part in whatsoever….and what is their main preoccupation?…kIlling other Iraqi muslims….clap clap clap what a fantasic achievment eh

    22. talib in the west May 18th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

      its well known that 90% of the resistance in iraq..are born bred iraqiis..but its clear to many that their methodology although initially was correct to fight the invading americans…soon became a power motivated fight..clearly far from the methodology of rasool allah and the sahabas…just the fact that they controlled large parts of iraq…and now resort to suicide bombing of markets is a proof of that.

      wa allahu a’lam

    23. Arab ‘Aribah May 19th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

      what do you mean ‘markets are infrastructure’?…do not civilians work, shop and move about in the market?…of course their intention is to kill any and everyone within the vacinity…it’s not like they do it when the market is empty is it now…..and so what if they are Shia…is it halal to kill them because they are shia?….the so-called Sunni mujahideen are are bucnch of Satanic psychopaths guising themselves within Islamic garb…not only that they are really a bunch of cowards!

    24. talib May 20th, 2009 at 12:23 am

      those alqaeda in iraq do not hide the fact that they target shiites wherever they are..busy markets included..very evil acts

    25. Arab ‘Aribah May 20th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

      Salam Suyuufi

      My response was directly related to what you had stated….i don’t see anything ambiguous about that….i just think you’re dodging giving a response…just like you did when i answered your question on the Ethnic origin/ complexion of the Prophet Muhammad….i gave you and anyone reading….more than enough there expecting some kind of back to back dialogue….but nothing…..but for the record i’m not gullible enough to believe everything the Western Media are feeding out but i’m just as sceptical as the so-called jihadist propaganda…and by the way not all the western media are biased…there are those who tell it like it is from both sides but when it comes to facts we should not make excuses…and one of those facts is that More Muslims are slaughtering each other on a daily basis than the Americans….there was a time when up 1000 deaths were occurring each month in Iraq….which had nothing whatsoever to do with the Americans or any foreign invader….Muslims are not adverse to killing each othetr in the thousands….our history is full of that unfortunately

    26. Arab ‘Aribah May 21st, 2009 at 4:41 am

      i am not shia or sunni….the Quran does not mention anything of this…….neither was the Prophet Muhammad….we are told to be Muslims…we are told to hold on to the rope of Allah and NOT separate…those who call themsleves ahl al bait and ahl al sunna and make a point of emphasising these differences are in defiance of the Quran……many if not most but not all of these sectarians…they are so caught up in their schisms that their madhab becomes an idol…the words of their scholars, the scholars themselves and the dubious Hadiths they quote……they have become idol worshippers without realising it

      [6:159] Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with
      you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform
      them of everything they had done.

      [30:32] (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide
      their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what
      they have.

      [42:14] Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the
      knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and
      resentment among themselves. If it were not for a
      predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for
      a definite interim, they would have been judged
      immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited
      the scripture are full of doubts.

    27. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 3:42 pm

      By rejecting the label of Ahl us Sunnah you have rejected the way of Allah-knows how many scholars not only in this generation but also in the past generations. “Sunni Islam” as it’s called is the same Islam practiced by the Prophet SAW’s hadith.

      Typical sectarian response….using sectarian rhetoric to support ones own sect….how appropriate…and then audaciously claiming that one belongs to the ‘saved’ sect!

      Perhaps i’ll respond likewise……..

      By rejecting the Quran you have rejected the way of Allah, all his revelations and the Prohets who recieved them….. not only in this generation but also in the past generations. Deen Allah Deen al Islam or Sunnat’Allah ( 33:62 )….as it’s called in the Quran… the same Islam practiced by the Prophet Muhammad.

    28. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 3:54 pm

      Although The Quran does not associate the word “sunna” with
      Muhammad or make reference to him with it, it is found within the book, in many verses. One must put apart the generally accepted definition of sunna and actually read and understand what it refers to in The Quran.

      It is not the same concept as what the “Muslims” claim it is, but that it is a concept and idea that is tightly associated with Allah and his system of operating and how it has remained the same and has never changed and will not change.

      33:62 “(Such was) Allahs SUNNA (system)
      among those who lived before, and no change will you find in THE
      GOD’S SUNNA (system).”

      48:23 “(Such has been the) SUNNA (system)
      of Allah already, from before, and no change will you find in the
      SUNNA (system) of Allah.”

      33:38 “And there was no harm on the Prophet
      from that which Allah ordained for him. Such as been the SUNNA
      (system) OF ALLAH from before. And the command of The God
      will be fulfilled.”

      35:43 “On account of their arrogance in the
      earth and plotting evil and none suffer except for those who plotted
      evil Then, can they expect anything but the SUNNA (system) of
      those from the beginning? No change will you find in the SUNNA
      (system) OF THE GOD, nor will the SUNNA (system) OF ALLAH

      17:77 “(This was) OUR SUNNA (system)
      with the messengers we sent before you, and no change will you find
      in OUR SUNNA (system).”

      You can see from the above verses that the word “sunna” in The Quran has remotely nothing to do with Muhammad or his actions, behaviors, sayings or anything close to the Sunni or Shia “Muslims” concept of sunna.

      Many Muslims define the literal translation of the word “sunna” as
      “way” or “path”, when, in Arabic, the word “tareeq” or “tareeqa” is used
      for both “way” and “path.”

      The word “sunna” is used in The Quran referring to a “system” or “method of operating”, (namely, Allah the manner in which things are handled or done, or even to describe how Allah deals with things, i.e. nature and the laws he set forth governing the universe. (Ex. Law of gravity), as we have already seen in the verses quoted.

      The concept of Sunna does not relate to Muhammad in The
      Quran. The Sunna, in The Quran refers to Allah’s
      system of operation, his course, and his treatment of people,
      places, and all other things found in this universe [33:62,
      35:43, 33:38].

      The term “sunna” is inappropriately attributed and associated with Muhammad to describe his ways of life, which are supposedly documented in the various hadith compilations.

    29. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 4:06 pm

      The Sunna Dogma

      …………”…..But little did Bernard Shaw know that the falsehood and tyranny of religious dogmas that once poisoned Christianity in Europe, stealthily crept into Islam after the death of the Prophet. Stoning to death, apostasy (execution for renunciation of religious faith), and the “Bull” were the earth-shaking tool for the Christendom prior to the formation of Martin Luther’s Protestant denomination of Christianity.

      Those venomous dogmas are strikingly forceful today in some Islamic countries and are still being contended by the Mullahs for their incorporation in these days.

      In fact, the “Bull” was a system of expressing Papal ordinance to anyone in the Christendom to explain before a religious court. The carbon copy of the “Bull” of Christianity is the “Fatwa” in Islam today.

      The word “Sunnah”, up to the time of Prophet Muhammad, meant the practices of antiquity especially in Yathrib – the city that had been ruled by the early Jews since 66 AD who took shelter there to escape the massacre in Jerusalem by the Romans.

      Ironically, Prophet Muhammad too took shelter there to save himself and his followers from the tyranny of the Meccans. The name Yathrib eventually got changed to Madinatun-Nabi (The City of the Prophet) and in short Medina.

      At the beginning, Islam’s uncompromising monotheism was believed to be pivoted on the words of God, revealed to Prophet Muhammad – as opposed to any personal words of teachings similar to Buddha or Jesus.

      But the dogmas of Sunnah soon acquired a different significance after the time of the Prophet. Particularly from the ninth century it came to denote the practices of Prophet Muhammad including whatever he said, did, or approved during his time.

      Being elevated to the holiness with the same divinity as the Koran, the doctrine of Sunnah has substantially turned Islam into a figure worshipper. Consequently, this personality cult ensued war among its people and effectively derailed Islam from its initial dedication to preventing widespread cruelty and social oppression.

      The Hadith literature – the source of the Sunnah, is imposingly believed to be the words of Prophet Muhammad, passed through his companions. While purportedly made in the name of the Prophet, a number of these sayings can actually be traced to Zoroastrian culture, the Christian Bible and even the laws and rituals of the Byzantine.

      In a manner of speaking, the limited legislation in the Koran, basically the rules in regard to marriage, divorce, inheritances, orphans, food and a few others occupy very little room in the whole canon of Sharia Laws.

      A vast bulk of it comes from the Sunnah and significantly from Bukhari, concocted and recorded about 200 years after the death of the Prophet.

      Evidently, deeply merged in it, are the arbitrary laws, induced by the Muslim emperors and kings of their own as they could not successfully invoke to settle questions arising in such diverse categories as systematic and moral theology, ritual, civil and military laws, etc.

      Right from the inception, the Hadith literature presents the rational readers with contradictory statements. Whether it was permissible to write down traditions of the prophet in the early days of Islam is a serious question. Abu Huraira, a late convert to Islam and a companion of the Prophet, narrated nearly 3,500 Hadith.

      This prolific narrator of Hadith stated in one Hadith that the Prophet, once observing his followers writing down his sayings, gave them a resolute warning to refrain from such a venture.

      He then cited the evils of making religious books out of the personal sayings of previous Prophets. Finally he told them: “Do you not know that nothing but the writing of books beside the book of God led astray the peoples that were before you?”

      Even in one Hadith of Abu Huraira, evidently the sayings of the prophet, compiled before this warning, were heaped together and burned.

      While the Koran dictates the companions of the prophet to “Obey God and obey His Messenger”: (Koran: 04.059), the rediscovering of the Hadith, despite being prohibited by the Prophet himself, is extremely mind boggling. Most importantly, its incorporation in the Islamic laws and rituals, tantamount to defiance of the Koranic decree “Obey His messenger”.

      But ironically, such a defiance, though otherwise is a sin, seems to have turned into a “holy act” in the resolution of those early Imams who reshaped Islam with their love and inclination to human worshipping. During the ninth and tenth century, however, the reshaping of Islam was more for administrative connivance. Evidently, the wrinkles of Islam are too many today to iron out.

      Quite often, the Ulemas and the Islamists quote the Koran and point out the verses where “Obey God, and obey the Messenger” appear.

      They then try to rationalize the incorporation of the Sunnah in the Islamic paradigm as consistent with the Koranic message – i.e. “obey the Messenger”.

      Surely, the presence of such verses in the Koran is quite relevant and justified because Prophet Muhammad wasn’t just a prophet, he was a commander, a judge, a leader, a ruler, a teacher and a preacher.

      Obviously, obeying his order and direction was of paramount importance for all of his companions, soldiers and people in his time. Besides, none could “Obey God” unless they “obey the Messenger” in believing what God had dictated to him.

      Plainly put, this phrase, “obey the Prophet” does not construe that every word he ever said is sacred and indicates perpetuity for all time.

      There is a verse that offers a definitive clarity as to the misinterpretations of the phrase “obey the Messenger” as decreed in the Koran. No doubt, this misinterpretation has derailed Islam from its initial orbit for more than a millennium.

      The full text of the verse reads: “O you who believe! Obey God, and obey the Messenger, and those in charged with authority among you. If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Messenger” [004.059].

      Keeping historical events in mind, one must not interpret that “refer it to God and His Messenger” means the Koran and the Hadith.

      The Koran was not even compiled when the prophet was alive and most Hadith literature was not collected until two hundred years after his death.

      Besides, papers and printing press were not present at that time to offer easy access of the Koran and the Hadith to every hand of the Muslims.

      Obviously, the phrase – “refer it to God and His Messenger” clearly indicates those relatives, companions, and friend of the Prophet that were around him.

      Clearly, it was only them who could approach and “refer” to the Messenger for clarification. Another verse reads: “O you who believe! obey God and His Messenger and do not turn back from him while you hear.” [008.020].

      Here the expression “do not turn back from him while you hear”, undoubtedly addresses those who could hear him because of their proximity to the Prophet.

      A vast number of the Islamic doctrines are strangely absent in the Koran. They are, however, profusely enshrined in the Hadith and their prominence is supported in Islamic laws with parallel holiness with the Koran. Historian Will Durant tells us that the Christian Church took over some religious customs and forms prevailing among the pagans in pre-Christian Rome.

      The vestments of pagan priests, use of incense and holy water in purification, burning of candles, light before the altar and more importantly the law of Rome as a basis for Christian Canon Law.

      The Jews once found the Mosaic laws, despite its wealth of details, insufficient itself without the assistance of case laws and traditions. Eventually, the Talmud (oral law) arose to supply this need.

      Similarly, the crawling of Sunnah into Islamic laws spans over several centuries. In short, it started after the death of Harun ar-Rashid, the Caliph of Baghdad in 809 AD.

      About seven years before his death he had made a Will and his eldest son al-Amin, was given the caliphate comprising of the Arab lands while al-Ma’mun got the Persian territories and not the Caliphate.

      As al-Ma’mun could not compromise with his father’s Will he, with the help of Iranian army from Khorasan, marched into Baghdad and had his brother killed. This brutal murder caused severe antagonism between the Arabs and the Iranians.

      Consequently, al-Ma’mun had to shift his strategy that severely downgraded the Arabs in his army. After realizing that it would not be safe either to depend solely on the army from Khorasan, al- Ma’mun decided to have mercenaries from Turkey.

      The Turks were then easily approachable and sufficiently numerous. The rapid growth of Turkish influence in the administration, court, and army eventually made the Caliph merely a puppet in the hands of the Turkish generals.

      He remained banished in Samara – far away from Baghdad. With his absence from the power-point, Islamic laws started brewing in the cauldron of the Turks – basically, Nestorian Christians having extended ties with Rome. The Popes in Rome always viewed Islam as a threat to their Hellenic Christianity and papal power.

      The Turkish judges and high-ranking officers had very little knowledge about the new religion of Islam. Now the religious hypocrisy, borrowed from Rome, was more powerful in quelling down any decedent than the power of army.

      Any innocent people could have been charged and punished with treason or heresy just the way it was carried out in the Christendom.

      The entry of Turkish soldiers in the Abbasid service began a process that gave a distinctive shape to the administrative, political and cultural life of the world of Islam.

      Concurrently, this atmosphere generated a class of professionals and was called the “Ulema” towards the dying days of the Abbasid dynasty.

      During the period from 933 to 937, a number of small but influential mercenary leaders erupted around Caspian and Persian-sea. They were knows as the Buyids, Ghaznavids and Seljuqs. The Buyids had taken over the power in Iraq at the invitation of the Caliph.

      Systematically, they had formulated their theological and juridical ideas in the name of Islam. And more than ever the ‘Ulemas’ functioned as the brokers to authenticate the Caliphs’ rule being in agreement with the Prophet’s precedents – the Sunnahs including the way the Prophet rode his camels, cleaned his teeth and kept his beard.

      Muhammad Shahrur, a Syrian civil engineer, authored a book in 1992, entitled al-Kitab wa-l-Qur’an (The Book and the Quran). A review indicates that millions of copies of this book have been sold throughout the Arab world despite the fact that its circulation has been banned in many Islamic countries. Its success could not have been materialized unless there are a huge number of people who are in favor of its advocacy.

      The need for reinterpretation of Islamic laws, tradition and precepts to contemporary society has been thunderously echoed in this book and it covers such issues ranging from the role of women in the society to the acceptance of the virtues of the non-Muslim world

      While we take comfort in the strength of Islam as the torchbearer during the ‘Dark Ages’, the inclusion of the misinterpreted Sunnah in the formation of Islamic epitome and the compilation of the Sharia Laws is merged with conspiracy and administrative connivance.

      Though demeaning, the ecclesiastical and temporal polity of the Islamic world was, unfortunately, built on these flimsy and corrupted sources that have been in existence for about a thousand years.

      The reverences in which the Prophet was held by his contemporaries can be rationalized as their nostalgic passion that might have led them to preserve and repeat his sayings.

      This is normal and understandable. But to incorporate those sayings as Islamic edicts and to invoke them to prove that a certain act was performed by the Prophet, and therefore to be imitated by all believers, puts Islam in the same footings of personality cult that centered on Muhammad’s sayings, doings, habits and choices.

      Though idol worshipping is a forbidden dictum in the Koran but it has stealthily mounted on all Islamic edicts behind the shield of a boasting Sunnah.

      No doubt, millions of educated Muslims today are highly critical of the adherence to ancient and corrupted dogmas. In reality, the ill-conceived Sunnahs have poisoned Islam with such a severity that the cure, short of an Islamic Martin Luther, cannot be achieved.

      [Sources: Classical Islam, Von Grunebaum; Traditions of Islam, Alfred Guillaume; The Muslim Creed, A.J. Wensinck; Muslim Theology, Duncan B. Macdonald; A History of the Arab Peoples, Albert Hourani; The Outline of History, H.G. Wells; Mankind's Search for God, various.]

      Mesbah Uddin A researcher and a freelance writer has contributed this article from the United Kingdom.

    30. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 4:32 pm

      As far as Religion is concerned Allah has given us basic laws/rules/regulations on do’s and dont’s……halal wa haram……anything other than that is down to logic, reason and common sense……this is the year 2009 not the 7th century…..if the Prophet were alive today he would have to adjust to the modern times…without compromising his faith……..if his companions were alive today they would have to adjust to the time……we are alive now….and we know what it takes to live in a modern city….in a modern time…in a modern era… can I refer to khalif Omar or Abu Bakr for advise when they died over a thousand years ago?………the Quranic laws are basic and timeless…..while other by-laws can and should evolve with the changing times……..but what Allah has made lawful stays so, and what Allah has made unlawful stays so…….to illustrate this point, below is an attempt by the Prophet Muhammed himself to reverse a Lawful thing that was decreed by Allah in order to please his wives:

      “Oh Prophet, WHY do you forbid “TUHARAM” that which God has made lawful “AHAL” in order to please your wives. God is Merciful and Forgiving. God has decreed to you how to revoke your oaths, and God is your Lord. He is most Wise and Knowledgeable” (66/1-2)

      On this subject we find that Allah REPRIMANDED the Prophet Muhammed for uttering these words and re-confirmed His laws on the subject…….now are any of us better than the prophet Muhammed?….if he was told not to make up do’s and don’t’s rules pertaining to faith how is it we have volume upon volume of prohibitions all claiming to come from him?….you know the irony is…what is haram according to one sect……ie listening to music….is permissable to another sect….how can one sect of Muslims have one issue permitted while another set has it forbidden and yet at the same time both will claim that they are following the ‘sunna’ of the Prophet?….an example of just how serious these deviations are would be Afghanistan…..the Taliban were staunch follows of the so-called Sunna…everything they said and did was Sunna this….Hadith that…..Sharia says this…… the Taliban executed anyone they caught making or even listening to music….thats how dedicated they were to that….they used Hadiths from Bukhari to support their actions…..yet in Egypt, Saudia, Syria and Sudan musicians, singers and parties abound on almost every street corner…..yet all three countries employ ‘Sharia’ courts for upholding religious laws and all three use the so-called sahih of Bukhari, Muwatta of Malik etc etc as a back up for their actions………so why the blatant inconsistency?
      Now if he, Rasoolallah, was reprimanded for making something Haram which Allah had not, then what will be our fate?

      “And do not say lies for what your tongues describes: this is lawful (HALAL), and that is unlawful (HARAM), to lie about God. Those who lie about God will never succeed. They will have small pleasures (on Earth), AND FOR THEM IS A PAINFUL RETRIBUTION” (16/116-117)

      Why do you think Allah revealed that incident regarding the Prophet?…..why do you think it is right there for us to see?…… is an important lesson… is to show you and I that eventhough he was a Prophet and was receiving revelation…he still did not have the right to make Haram halal or halal haram….Allah was reminding him that only HE could do that.

      This is just how serious those words we hear uttered every day are…… need more evidence?

      “Say ‘Do you see that which God has provided for you, you make some of it Unlawful (Haram) and some of it Lawful (Halal)?. Say ‘Did God allow you to do this? Or do you tell lies about God?” (10/59)

      Are you convinced this is no joking matter?

      “Say ‘who has made Unlawful (Haram) the luxuries that God has provided his servants and the good things?…” (7/32)

      The meaning of 66.1-5 and 7:157 now becomes very clear, the Prophet will invite his people to do righteous acts, enjoins them from evil and prohibits them from bad things, all in accordance to what is given to him in the Quran by God, and nothing else……

      .let me give you another example….when we go for Hajj or Umra is it necessary to kiss the Black stone?…some Muslims would argue ‘yes we have to kiss the black stone because the Prophet did it’…..but is kissing the black stone part of the Hajj ritual mentioned in the Quran?…No it is not!….as a matter of fact there is no mention in the Quran at all of al hajar-ul aswad……it has been confined to the history books only…… Allah did not mention it because it has nothing to do with Taheed….nothing to do with faith…….nothing to do with our religious practise……but even if the Prophet did kiss it…so what!…he may just have done that because of how he felt at the time and not for others to follow him… may just have been a spontaneous action….if anyone has been to Makka during Hajj, Umra or Ramadan you see thousands of people rushing, pushing, shoving to get near to the black stone so that they can kiss it….now is this a practicle sunna practise?……is it hygienic even?….imagine all those people kissing a stone….all the different saliva that has gone on it…a stone that can not benefit you or I and is just a stone nothing more…..all throughout the Quran Allah commands us to stay away from stone and alters, yet during the visit to the Kaba, and at one of its corners, Muslims from all over the world push and shove their way ferociously to get to what is called ‘the black stone’ in order to touch it and kiss it, believing that the stone has the power to heal them, save them or bless them!!!

      If this is not idolatry I do not know what is!! Not surprisingly, this ritual has no sustenance in the Quran whatsoever,…….and since we are comparing the rituals of sectarianism…what is the difference between a Catholic kissing a statute of Mary while asking for Blessings, a Shia kissing the tomb of Ayatollah Khamni and an ahl al sunna Muslim kissing the Black stone on the Kaaba while uttering bismiAllah???????

    31. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 4:43 pm

      Yes indeed The Prophet was of noble character and a mercy to mankind but we should not get carried away by our love of the Prophet….yes again we know that he had an honourable character, was overall a good example and was the last Prophet but he was human being just like you and I and not infallible…..he was perfect in his delivery of the revelation but not perfect as a human being…….His imperfections, errors, mistakes, and faults are documented in various sections of The Quran, the same book that Muhammad was made to deliver, preach, and remind with……

      Muhammad rejects the blind man

      80:1- 12 “He (Muhammad) frowned and turned
      away when there came, to him, a blind man. And how did you know he
      wanted to come to The God to purify himself, or become purified so
      the remembrance might profit him? For the self-sufficient (wealthy
      man), you attended to him. And it is not upon you that he should
      purify himself. And for him who came to you earnestly, and feared,
      you were unmindful of him. No, in it is a reminder, so let it be in

      In 80:1-12, we are told about a blind man coming to Muhammad, striving earnestly, and hoping to purify and redeem himself. Muhammad frowned at him and turned away from him, ignoring him……yet for the wealthy, selfsufficient man who came to him, Muhammad offered assistance and attended him……this was unfair and an error on Muhammad’s part, and so it is exposed in The Quran, and to serve as a reminder and lesson for us.

      Muhammad bans something that is lawful

      66:1-2 “Oh you Prophet! Why did you did you
      make unlawful that which The God made lawful? You were trying to
      please your wives. God is the forgiving, the merciful. Already,
      God has ordained for you the expiation of your oaths, and God is
      your protector, and he is the all-knowing, wise.”

      Muhammad forgiven for making a mistake

      9:43 “God forgives you! (Muhammad),
      when you gave them permission so you can expose the honest from
      the liars.”

      Muhammad fears the people instead of fearing

      33:37 “And if you say to him who God has favored and who was favored by you. Keep your wife to yourself and your duty to God, and you did hide to yourself what God exposed, and you feared men, and God has the greater right to be feared. So when Zayd dissolved her marriage-tie, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers about the wives of their adopted sons, when they have dissolved their marriage ties. And God’s command was performed.”

      All of the above accounts are extractions and examples from The Quran, which prove to us that Muhammad was not perfect, but erred like all humans, do. The “Muslim” claims of Muhammad’s perfection and inability to err, sin, or make mistakes is quickly exposed by Allah numerous times in The Quran.

      In simple terms, Muhammad…

      Rejected an earnest, striving blind man
      Banned a thing that The God made lawful
      Made a mistake that The God forgave him for
      Feared men instead of fearing The God

      Allah has given each individual a functioning mind, and each individual is responsible for his own thoughts, ideas, and opinions. We are not robots and we do not rely on our instincts…….we have essential tools such as understanding, rationale, and comprehension, and we should apply these tools in matters of religion, politics, and everything else in life……some may be a little shocked at these Quranic verses that show us that Muhammad was a human being like us and that he was not free from committing errors or mistakes.

      18:110 “Say (Muhammad) I am just a mortal like yourselves! The inspiration has come to me; your God is One God.
      Whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him do good works and when
      worshipping do not associate with your Lord, One.”

      Since Muhammad was just a human being, like the rest of us, then he is subject to the same circumstances and conditions that all humans are subject to…..anger, sadness, joy, and the ability to be wrong or mistaken are all aspects of human behavior, and no human is exempt from these traits, not even Muhammad Furthermore, Muhammad is characterized in The Quran as being just a human being who was chosen by Allah to deliver a message to address the Arabs of his region and time, via The Quran. The Quran goes on to say…

      3:144 “Muhammad is no more than a messenger; messengers have passed away before him. Should he die or get killed, would you turn back on your heels? Anyone who turns back on his heels does no harm to God at all. God rewards those who are thankful.”

      6:34 “Messengers before you have been rejected, and they were patient and persevered in the face of rejection. They were persecuted until our victory came to them. Such is God’s system that will never change. The history of My messengers sets the precedents for you.”

      We can find a similar verse regarding Jesus, in the Quran, where Allah describes them both in a similar way.

      5:75 “The Messiah, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger, messengers have passed away before him….”

      As stated before, Muhammad was a human being who was chosen to be a messenger of Allah to his Arab peoples who had seriously corrupted their society……does this mean he is sub-human or divine, and able to conquer his worldly needs, temptations, and affections?

      Does he not need food to sustain himself? Does he not walk on two legs? Does he not sleep?

      25:20 “We never sent, before you, any messengers, except that they ate food and walked in the markets…”

      As indicated in The Quran, everything about a messenger of Allah is human. He is composed of the same materials everyone else is, he has the same earthly needs as the rest of humans, he needs sleep to function, food to live on, and even talked, walked, and dreamed like us. Some people are made to excel above others in different areas of life, but none are divine or god-like

    32. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 5:48 pm

      The answer to your questions are infact in the responses above but you have ignored them…in order for the dialogue not to become repetitive it is important that you read CAREFULLY what is written in response to you.

      In Conclusion

      The word Sunna in the Quran has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Muhammad.

      Those who say they are following the sunna…well that is what they are doing following the sunna…the sunna that was made up by their scholars believing it to be the sunna of Muhammad….if you want ne to give you examples…untold amounts of examples of ‘sunna’/Hadiths’ contradicting thge Quran i can oblige

      We are NEVER told to follow the Prophets Sunna

      Does Obey Allah and His Prophet Really mean sifting volume upon volume of ahadiths that were compiled 200 after his death?

      The Quran quotes the Prophet in a future tense with the following statement…..”(On the day of judgment) the messenger will say,

      ‘My Lord; my people have deserted THIS QURAN.’ We thus set up against every prophet enemies from among the guilty. Your LORD SUFFICES AS A GUIDE AND SUPPORTER.” (25:30-31)

      Sunni and Shia Muslims have innocently or DELIBERATELY rejected the Quran in favour of the conflicting opinions of their favourite imams that is why you have idol worshipping acts/rituals during hajj/ramadan such as kissing the black stone or throwing 21 pebbles at three rock pillars claiming it to be stoning the Devil!….The Prophet Muhammad has become an idol to millions just as Prophet Jesus has became an idol to Christians where he ( Muhammad ) his name is continuously evoked in the masjid more so than Allah….people are trying imitate the Prophet so much so even down to the very position he urinated in!….ios this what ‘following a good example’ really means?…..of course The Prophet Muhammad is innocent of this as this was done by those who wanted to corrupt Islam from within after he had passed away….yet they ( The Hypocrites ) have succeeded in duping millions into believing their dubiuos dogmas by audaciuosly using The Prophets name.

    33. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 6:03 pm

      The Sunna of Muhammad according to the Hadith
      According to the Sunna, Muslims should….

      …spit water on childrens faces!

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 1, Book 3, Number 77: Narrated Mahmud bin
      Rabi’a: When I was a boy of five, I remember, the Prophet took water from a bucket (used far getting water out of a well) with his mouth and
      threw it on my face.

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 188:

      Narrated Ibn
      Shihab: Mahmud bin Ar-Rabi’ who was the person on whose face the
      Prophet had ejected a mouthful of water from his family’s well
      while he was a boy, and ‘Urwa (on the authority of Al-Miswar and
      others) who testified each other, said, “Whenever the Prophet ,
      performed ablution, his companions were nearly fighting for the
      remains of the water.”

      …spit on your clothes!

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 242: Narrated Anas:
      The Prophet once spat in his clothes.

      …kill animals!
      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 579: Narrated Um

      Allah’s Apostle ordered that the salamander should be killed and
      said, “It (i.e. the salamander) blew (the fire) on Abraham.”
      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 528: Narrated ‘Aisha
      The Prophet ordered that a short-tailed or mutilated-tailed snake
      (i.e. Abtar) should be killed, for it blinds the on-looker and causes

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 540:

      Narrated Abdullah
      bin Umar Allah’s Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.
      …marry pre-teen girls and have sex with them!

      Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116
      “Aisha said, “The Messenger of Allah married me when I was seven
      years old.” (The narrator Salaiman said: “Or six years.”). “He had
      intercourse with me when I was 9 years old.”

      Sahih Muslim #3311
      Aisha reported that Allah’s Messenger married her when she was
      seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she
      was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he died she was
      eighteen years old.

      The Jewish Talmud also cites a similar passage regarding Jewish men and their marriage to young girls, concepts adopted by Sunnis and Shias to include in their Satanic Hadeeth books (Al Hadeeth Al
      Shaytoniyya) which they attribute falsely to Muhammad, to demonize
      and destroy him and his personality.

      Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically,
      three years “and a day” old).

      Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child
      is less than nine years old. Kethuboth 11b . “When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”

      …give women cloth for sex!

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139: Narrated Abdullah:
      We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet
      and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet).
      “Shall we castrate ourselves?” But the Prophet forbade us to do that
      and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by
      giving her even a garment, and then he recited: “O you who believe!
      Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for

      [Also Saheeh Muslim Book 008, Number 3243: narrated by Abdullah
      b. Mas'ud]

      …clean your private parts with stones!

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 162:

      Narrated Abu Huraira:

      The Prophet said, “Whoever performs ablution should clean his
      nose with water by putting the water in it and then blowing it out,
      and whoever cleans his private parts with stones should do it with
      odd number of stones.”

      …drink women’s milk!

      Al Muwatta by Malik Ibn Anas, Chapter. 30, # 12

      “A woman can allow any adult man to drink her milk and become her

      …use racial terms!

      Saheeh Bukhari Vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256
      Muhammad allegedly referred to Blacks as “raisin heads.”

      Saheeh Muslim Vol. 9 pgs. 46- 47
      Muhammad quoted as allegedly saying that Blacks are “pug-nosed

      …drink contaminated water!

      Sunan Abu Dawood Book 1, Number 0067:

      Narrated AbuSa’id al- Khudri: I heard that the people asked the Prophet of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): Water is brought for you from the well of Buda’ah. It is a well in which dead dogs, menstrual clothes and excrement of people are thrown. The Messenger of Allah
      (peace_be_upon_him) replied: Verily water is pure and is not defiled
      by anything.

      …have sex this way!

      Saheeh Muslim Book 008, Number 3365:
      This hadith has been reported on the authority of Jabir through
      another chain of transmitters, but in the hadith transmitted on the
      authority of Zuhri there is an addition (of these words):” If he likes
      he may (have intercourse) being on the back or in front of her, but it
      should be through one opening (vagina).”

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299: Narrated ‘Abdur-
      Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
      (on the authority of his father) ‘Aisha said: “Whenever Allah’s
      Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses),
      he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her.”
      ‘Aisha added, “None of you could control his sexual desires as the
      Prophet could.”

      …drink camel urine if you become sick!

      Saheeh Muslim Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234: Narrated Abu
      Qilaba: Anas said, “Some people of ‘Ukl or ‘Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine)…

      [Also Saheeh BukhariVolume 4, Book 52, Number 261: Narrated Anas
      bin Malik]

      …not clap your hands (clapping is only for women)
      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 2, Book 22, Number 309 Narrated Sahl bin
      … So Bilal pronounced the Iqama and Abu Bakr went forward
      and the people said Takbir. In the meantime, Allah’s Apostle
      came piercing through the rows till he stood in the (first) row
      and the people started clapping. Abu Bakr, would never look
      hither and thither during the prayer but when the people
      clapped much he looked back and saw Allah’s Apostle. The
      Prophet beckoned him to carry on. Abu Bakr raised both his
      hands, praised Allah and retreated till he stood in the row and
      Allah’s Apostle went forward and led the people in the prayer.
      When he had finished the prayer, he addressed the people and
      said, “O people! Why did you start clapping when something
      happened to you in the prayer? Clapping is for women.
      Whenever one is confronted with something unusual in the
      prayer one should say, ‘Sub Han Allah’.”

      …be a ruthless assassin and a hit man!

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 265: Narrated Al-Bara
      bin Azib:
      Allah’s Apostle sent a group of the Ansar to Abu Rafi.
      Abdullah bin Atik entered his house at night and killed him
      while he was sleeping.

      …force medicine into people’s mouths for curing

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 735: Narrated ‘Aisha:
      We poured medicine in one side of the Prophet’s mouth during
      his illness and he started pointing to us, meaning to say, “Don’t
      pour medicine in my mouth.” We said, “(He says so) because a
      patient dislikes medicines.” When he improved and felt a little
      better, he said, “Didn’t I forbid you to pour medicine in my
      mouth?” We said, ” (We thought it was because of) the dislike,
      patients have for medicines. He said, “Let everyone present in
      the house be given medicine by pouring it in his mouth while I
      am looking at him, except ‘Abbas as he has not witnessed you
      (doing the same to me).”

      …not eat garlic!

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 1, Book 12, Number 815: Narrated ‘Abdul
      A man asked Anas, “What did you hear from the Prophet about
      garlic?” He said, “The Prophet said, ‘Whoever has eaten this
      plant should neither come near us nor pray with us.”

      …burn people’s houses!

      Saheeh Bukhari, Vol. 1, Hadeeth No 626
      The Prophet asked his men to burn the houses of people who
      did not go to the mosque to pray

      …not eat or drink with your left hand!

      Saheeh Muslim (1:634) Number: 634
      Jabir (May Allah be pleased with him) said: I heard the
      Messenger of Allah (PBUH) as saying: “Do not eat with your left
      hand, because Satan eats and drinks with his left hand.”

      …not yawn!

      Saheeh Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 509:

      Narrated Abu
      Huraira The Prophet said, “Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you
      yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: ‘Ha’, Satan will laugh at him.”

      The Quran also says that Muhammad was a human [18:110]
      who made mistakes and errors [80:1-12, 66:1-2, 9:43, 33:37]
      but if the Sunna is all of which Muhammad said, did, practiced,
      etc… then even his mistakes and errors are to be included.

      If the Sunna includes all that which Muhammad did, said, and
      practiced and that we must imitate and do the same as him,
      then that means the above hadeeth extractions are part of the
      Sunna and should be followed.

      It is unworthy to apply such a concept Muhammad and yet exclude some aspects of it.

      We know that his people were to follow what Muhammad had
      delivered to them (by choice) [5:48, 46:9]. It is evident that
      the hadeeth books and the contents within it are blasphemous
      towards Allah and demeaning to the character of Muhammad
      and the descriptions of Muhammad in these books are against
      the Quranic description of him [68:24, 9:128].

      Allah has told us repeatedly that The Reading is what was revealed to
      Muhammad and that is exactly what he followed [6:50], and
      that is why the messenger is referred to as being a good
      example [33:21].

    34. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 6:14 pm

      “You may marry a 1-year-old girl and have sex with when she is 8″ says the Sunni scholar on an Arabic TV program.

      The following TV interview is in Arabic and it has English subtitles. The Sunni-Wahabi clergymen glorifies pedophilia by repeating one of the greatest lies fabricated by medieval pedophiles about Prophet Muhammad that he married Aisha at age SIX and had sex with her at age NINE. The Sunni clergyman then shamelessly claims that Muhammad is their role model.

      His description of marriage is “a contract between two men: the groom and the father of the girl.”

      According to this Sunni concept of marriage, girls are like sheep and cows and could be purchased from their owners! In their minds, girls are slaves and they are lords.

      Thus, they are no different than the Pharaoh, who claimed to be the lord of enslaved humans. Perhaps, they are even worse than Pharaoh, since there is no evidence that he was forcing girls at age 9 to have sex with males at age of their grandfathers.

      Unfortunately, the TV host is an idiot or a coward. He could not challenge the sources of his stories about Muhammad. He could not refute the authenticity of the world’s most popular collections of lies: Bukhari and other popular Sunni and Shiite hadith books.

      Furthermore, the TV host did not question the Sunni scholar whether those Sunnis who are eager to follow such “a wonderful role model” in marrying little girls were themselves marrying their 6 or 9 years-old daughters to adult men who are 45 years older then their daughters.

      Here is the link

    35. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 6:23 pm

      Suyuufi despite what i advised you still are just rambling on about ‘sunna’ and not directly responding to specific points…ie so stoning three rock pillars is sunna, end of story?…who is wasting whose time here?….well atleast your own personal sunna is consistent…ie you did not respond to to my response on the ethnicity of the Prophet despite you making the initial question/disagreement and that attitude has fiollowed you throughout our ‘discourse’….my advise to you is study your sunna with an open mind and not be so gullible to what may appear to be ‘authentic’ when in reality it could be the total opposite

    36. JayMeal May 22nd, 2009 at 6:58 pm

      Arab ‘Aribah, unfortunately you’re posts lack anything that’s well thought out, and I could find the same accusations on an anti-Islaamic site run by atheists. From a historical viewpoint these ahadith were collected and written only a few decades after Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم died, therefore the very historical point about them is enough to say they’re valid, and before they were written they were passed down from Sahaba to Tabi’een, etc. So if you distrust the Salaf, as it seems you would by the caliber of your posts here, then I can see why you’re yelling mawdoo’ mawdoo’! Give me a break and use your brain to actually think about what you’re posting.

      You quite literally misinterpreted verses, and used abrogated ahadith to prove points? This is why not everyone can handle using ahadith because they post garbage like this. The hadith, for example about a woman being able to make a man a Mahrim by breast milk, was abrogated, and it’s well documented history that events like this happened but were then made Haraam. You know, the sale and trade of alcohol and other haraam things were also ok to do, until they were abrogated.

      Islam was made in stages, so the early stages things were done that are now against Shari’ah and using them in an inappropriate context like what you’re doing here, proves arrogance, and that you have little to no knowledge about the time frame or interpretation of these ahadith.

      Secondly, talking about a scholar who says its ok to do this and that, is irrelevant, and proves nothing against the Manhaj, but you may want to look towards Iraan that allows Mut’ah with infants and toddlers, and Ayatushatan Khomeini was known for practicing it with children.

      Anyone with a little knowledge of Islaam knows that the age of puberty for a girl it is allowed for her to be consummated into marriage, it’s the age of maturity. Marrying is not allowed at ages below this.

      So you may want to rethink your “information” when you actually read beyond verses and ahadith, because there’s tons of books of interpretation of the ul’ama who explain these, but of course you will butcher them in your attempts to defame true Islam.


    37. JayMeal May 22nd, 2009 at 9:08 pm

      Well maybe Arab Aribah would like to explain how we are supposed to obey Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم when we don’t know anything he said- since according to him all the ahadith are false (of the ones he disagrees with).

      He wont even use (صلى الله عليه وسلم) after the prophet’s name, is this another hadith you reject? Am I doing bid’ah when I say this?

      Oh and it seems you have an issue with the compilation of ahadith. First don’t be ignorant, the ahadith were not compiled 200 years after his death. If you’re referring to the famous books on ahadith, this means nothing, these books were compilations of texts that were passed down in generations, from trusted ul’ama. People like abu haneefah would quote the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم in is fatawaa, and he even met some of the sahaba, so are his hadith mawdoo’ as well?

      The Qu’ran was compiled into a book much later in Islaam, after the death of Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم does this mean that the Qu’ran is corrupted to because the physical book wasn’t compiled until after Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم had died?

      Common Sense People.


    38. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 9:15 pm


      Before the Third Century there were no recorded Hadiths anywhere! Please show me if you can.

      Shafi [150-204/767-819] introduced them, at the earliest, nearly two hundred years after the death of the prophet……then you have Imam Bukhari who lived a t a period of time 230 years after the death of the Prophet….i hope you are goood at maths because you can look up any biography of Bukhari and comfirm his birth date…..but of course that is not enough for you….you will then contend that the hadiths were passed down from generation to generation prior to the so-called sahih sitta collators being born but you have absolutely evidence of this what soever other than the collators word themselves! ….

      One of the criteria which Bukhari decided to subject his work sought to establish that the transmitters were honest persons in terms of their outward observance of Islam, and that each had a sound memory. This he did by apparently collecting the biography of each of the transmitters……how he managed to do this without written records, bridging a gap of about eight generations, and simultaneously establishing not only biographical data but also a compelling analysis of the mental faculties of his subjects defies belief!……in a large number of hadiths Abu Huraira is taken as the last link in the chain of narration. He was not – even according to Bukhari’s extraordinary method of compilation – assigned a good memory, however. But even this unnecessary inconvenience was not a problem for Bukhari who found an explanation:

      Bukhari (4:841)

      Narated Abu Huraira: I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I hear many narrations from you but I forget them.” He said, “Spread your covering sheet.” I spread my sheet and he moved both his hands as if scooping something and emptied it in the sheet and said, “Wrap it.” I wrapped it round my body, and since then I have never forgotten a single hadith.

      Most ingenious, I’m sure you will agree!

      if some hadith were abrogated as you claim…which is also a problematic notion….then what were they still doing as part of the collation over 200 years later?…what is the point?…for historical purposes?…and who did this ‘abrogating of hadiths?….please don’t tell me of the Prophet because he was not alive to even see the hadiths people wrote in his name and if you still continue to assume that certain acts were abrogated…then can you please explain the following which you will find in the so-called Sahih of Bukhari

      Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:

      “Narrated ‘Amr bin Maimun:

      Here they have Monkeys stoning each other for adultery!!!!!….thus i take it there was a time when monkeys got married, paid the nikah etc etc and if one monkey was caught having sexual liasons with another monkey other than their spouse…they were stoned to death by other monkeys!!!!!….but this act later on got abrogated and it;s only part of historical stage by stage development of Islam!….i feel sorry for your children if your going to teach this nonsense….you might as well tell them that Superman really does exist and that Santa Clause does indeed ride a raindear!….and one does not need to go to a ‘anti-Islam’ website…you can easily purchase books of Hadith an any muslim book store….you can access them online or by the whole collection on CD.

    39. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 9:24 pm

      and you are wrong about the Quran being complilee after the Prophet had passed…it was complied while he was alive….the very Qurn comfirms this itself

      but it (the Quran) is indeed a message of instruction. Therefore let whoso will, keep it in remembrance that it is in papers held in great honour, exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy, (written) by the hands of scribes, honourable, pious and just.” (80:11-16)

      For more details about the compliation of the Quran perhaps you may want to read through this article on the following link

    40. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 9:32 pm

      *inshaAllah (but then again that term is from the Prophet saws whose words and way you don’t seem to care about)

      This phrase originated from The Quran and Not Hadiths…please read surah kahf 23-24

    41. Arab ‘Aribah May 22nd, 2009 at 9:45 pm

      JayMeal is constantly repeating salutations to the Prophet a neccessity?

      “God and His angels ‘Yossalloon ala al Nabi’, O you believers you shall ‘Salloo alayhee’ and ‘Sallemoo tasleema’.”

      Now the staunch ahl ahl Sunnite will say that Allah has exclusively honored Muhammad when He said :

      “Allah and His angels Yossalloon ala al Nabi (for the prophet)”

      But is this really so?
      In the Quran we read that Allah and His angels do the same to all believers and not just to the prophet:

      “He is the one who ‘Yessallee alaikom’ (for the believers) and His angels, to deliver you out of darkness into the light” 33:43

      we also read :

      “These (the believers) have deserved ‘Sallawat’ from their Lord and mercy, they are the guided ones.” 2:157 … again the same meaning, but the matter does not end there, in Sura 9 we find Allah commanding the Prophet to do the same for the believers :

      “Take from their money a charity to purify them and sanctify them, and ‘Salli alaihom’ for your ‘Sallawat’ reassures them. Allah is Hearer, Omniscient.” 9:103

      Now if this verb ‘Yessalli’ is done by Allah to the believers, also by the Prophet to the believers, how can the interpreters say that it is an exclusive honor bestowed by Allah on the prophet?!!!

      Similarly when Allah and His angels ‘Yessalloo ala al Nabi’ it is in the sense that He supports the prophet together with His angels. Allah does not go around repeating the words ‘Sallee ala al Nabi’, ‘Sallee ala al Nabi’ !!!

      Let us try to stick to the subject at hand and not deviate into petty issues such as making saluwat on the Prophet as if it is some priority ritual….

    42. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 4:46 am

      Using Hadith to support Hadith how convenient?….and yet again you have avoided responding directly to my points only this time you have a feeble and cowardly excuse that you believe the words are not mine!….as if that makes any difference….i guess you must be a mind reader and have super natural powers to know this….i can see you are ignorant of the facts and quite happy to stay so….and what about your ‘concern’ about saving others who might be reading?….look at you pathetic answer to the phrase ‘inshallah’….i bet you did not even look it up in the Quran despite the fact that i gave you the verse ……that is because ahl Sunna are Quran REJECTORS…even though they will never admit it….but almost everything about their rhetoric says otherwise…..almost every one of your responses has been Hadith to support sunna and sunna to support hadith…thats like a Christian repeating over and over again that Jesus is the son of god…and when you say why?…he replies ‘because the Bible says so’… conclusion i do not entirely reject Hadith i just do not blindly follow/adhere to them just because the masses of people do….if a Hadith is Quranically agreeable then there is no issue but the fact is up to 90% are not but not that you would know that because i think you just accept them without question despite evidence to the contrary….in saying that though i don’t wish upon you any ill feelings and i have only good intentions for you and myself.

      Therefore, the clearest difference is that Islam according to The Quran is a monotheistic, clear, consistent, dynamic, progressive, balanced system…a system that eliminates conjectures, hearsay, fairy tales and contradictions…therefore it eliminates hardship, confusion, chaos, and division. It is a system which puts more accent on the usage of intellect, reason, pondering over Allah, His Creation, meaning of life, pondering over everything…While the sects of Shia and ahl al Sunna represent superstition, unfair treatment for non-muslims, inequality of the sexes, oppression of human rights, inability to contribute to human progress, physical violence, regression of ideas and thoughts to primitive levels of barbarism, and most importantly setting-up partners with the Allah and thus promoting shirk.

    43. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 11:10 am

      Sunni Hadith Compilers
      Bukhari (d. 256/870 CE) Abu Dawood (d. 275/888 CE) Ibn Maja (d. 273/886 CE)
      Muslim (d. 261/875 CE) Tirmidhi (d. 279/892 CE) Al-Nasa’i (d. 303/915 CE)

      Shia Hadith Compilers
      Ibn Babuwayh (d. 381 AH) Al-Murtada (d. 436 AH)
      Jaafar Muhammad Al-Tusi (d. 411 AH) Al-Kulaini (d. 328 or 329

      Notice how the Sunni hadith compiler’s deaths are very close to each other, in most cases, except for Al Nasa’i who died about 20+ years after the others. The Shia compilations, on the other hand, came about 50+ years after the Sunni hadith, and the topics differ widely when both of these sect’s hadith books are compared. The point is that these Hadith books came after Islam was perfected and completed, and hence hold no ground in Islam, despite whether they came only a little while after Prophet Muhammad or long after.

    44. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 4:59 pm

      Blah blah blah……this is quite funny if it was not so serious…..i think you and JayMeal are very ignorant egomaniacs……i have argued that two plus two is five, and presented you with a picture of two and two and ask you to count it…. you have ignored the questions, and merely repeated your claims…….so i guess i’m just going to ignore you both and just continue to post/expose your fake beliefs which are anti-Allah…anti-Quran and anti-Prophet Muhammad.

      wa layka

    45. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 5:15 pm

      Idolatrous ‘sunna’ rituals that violate the Quran.

      By Adam Ahmad Yusif

      1- The ‘Black stone’

      All throughout the Quran God commands us to stay away from stone and alters, yet during the visit to the Ka’bah, and at one of its corners, Muslims from all over the world push and shove their way ferociously to get to what is called ‘the black stone’ in order to touch it and kiss it, believing that the stone has the power to heal them, save them or bless them!!!

      Not surprisingly, this ritual has no sustenance in the Quran whatsoever, but originates instead from a corrupt ‘hadith’ stating that this stone was descended from heaven since the time of Abraham, that it is thus sacred, and that the prophet used to kiss it!!

      One is left wondering ‘have they not read the Quran!!?’ The Quran informs us that Abraham destroyed all the stone that his people were worshipping and said:

      “Do you then worship beside God what possesses no power to benefit you or harm you?”

      How could anyone in their proper sense of mind accept a dubious saying that is in total violation of the Quran! How could anyone believe that the prophet could ever kiss and idolise a stone that has no power to “benefit” or “harm” anybody?

      Needless to say, there is no mention whatsoever in the Quran about a blessed stone that has descended from heaven !!

      It is a sad sight today at the Ka’bah to see hundreds of people adhering their bodies to the walls of the Ka’bah, thinking that the walls of the Ka’bah will bless them!

      The scenes at the location of the ‘black stone’ are abhorrent. In front of the ‘black stone’ there is a line drawn on the ground.

      This line is intended as a marker from which people could keep count of each lap they have completed, however it is indeed a truly sad sight to see the people raising their hands in awe in the direction of the ‘black stone’ every time they passed the line! Some were even praying on the line itself in total awe of the ‘black stone’!!

      Once again, have they not read the Quran?!!
      “Say ‘Would you worship besides God what can neither harm you, nor benefit you?” 5:76 also see 10:18 and 25:55.

      2- The water of ‘Zamzam’

      The idolatry does not stop there, the devil has indeed instilled in the human being the worship of objects that cannot benefit him nor harm him.

      A further idolatrous superstition is connected to the water of ‘Zamzam’ which can be obtained in the Ka’bah and which Muslims believe it to be sacred and to cure one’s ailments!

      This superstition takes its origin from the Biblical story of ‘Hager’, Abraham’s slave wife who was sent away to the wilderness of the desert with her child Ishmael.

      In desperation and fear of dying of thirst, it is said that she ran back and forth between two hill tops in search of water, at which point God mercifully produced for her a gushing well from which she and Ishmael drank(The Bible, Genesis 21:14-21).

      However when we read the Biblical story of this event we find that it took place in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba. The town of Beer-Sheba which is south of Jerusalem, between Gaza and the Dead Sea, is nowhere near Mecca where the water of Zamzam is extracted!

      This, wide disparity of locations, together with the fact that there is no Quranic evidence whatsoever to substantiate or invalidate this story, adds a great deal of uncertainty about the truth of the water of Zamzam!

      One thing is for certain; there is nothing in the Quran that says that we should idolise and hold sacred any object, whether it is the water of ‘Zamzam’ or the ‘black stone’, thinking that either could benefit us in any way. On the contrary, doing so is in direct violation of 5:76, 21:66 and other verses as referred to before.

      Editor’s note: One of my aunts did around 14 Umrah’s along the years and at the end of every journey she used to return home from Mecca with a good supply of water from ‘Zamzam’ in the belief that it will cure her from various illness’. She used to fill little bottles with the water and distribute them among each member of the family! Till she died, all the water she brought back never cured her nor any one in the family of any illness!!

      3- The shortening of the Noon and Afternoon Salat

      This custom that is done in Hajj originates from another corrupt ‘hadith’ that claims that the prophet during his Hajj has performed a shortened Noon Salat and also an Afternoon Salat, doing only two Rak’ahs in each.

      To assess the truth of this claim it is necessary to consider the following verse:

      “When you travel, during war, you commit no error by shortening your Contact Prayers (Salat), if you fear the disbelievers may attack you.” 4:101

      It is clear from this verse that the only concession granted by God for the believers to shorten their Salat is during war when they fear for their lives. In all the Quran there are no concessions to shorten the Salat for any other reason.

      It is totally absurd to think that those performing Hajj, who have all day long to do nothing except worship God, may still find an excuse to shorten their Salat!

      The ironic thing is that after they shorten the Salat that is decreed by God, they have nothing to do except perform countless Rak’ahs that were not sanctioned by God and which they call ‘Sunna’!

      It is a sad fact that Muslims today all over the world, in total contempt of the Quran, shorten their Salat whenever they step outside their home towns. They could be on an air conditioned train or in a two hour car journey, still they shorten their Salat!

      According to one ‘mazhab’ (sect) one is allowed, whenever he travels, to shorten his Salat for two whole weeks from the date of his departure, or till he returns home, whichever one comes first!!!

      4- The Stoning ritual

      Another issue that is considered by Muslims to be an integral ritual of the Hajj is the stoning of Satan, yet not only is this ritual not mentioned in the Quran, but in actual fact there is ample evidence in the Quran to suggest that the stoning is an act of idolatry. All the correct rituals of Hajj are mentioned in the Quran, yet the stoning is not a Quranic ritual of Hajj.

      The origin of the stoning ritual comes from a corrupted interpretation of the word ‘Rajeem’ in the following verse:

      “He (God) said, ‘Therefore, you (Satan) must be exiled, you will be ‘rajeem’(banished)” 38:77. These words also appear in 15:34.

      The word ‘rajeem’ which means banished, has been corrupted to mean stoned, hence it is claimed that the stoning ritual during ‘Hajj’ is a Quranic command!!

      In support of such claim, the reference is made to some of the most ridiculous fabricated ‘hadith’, one of which claims that every time a stone is thrown at any of the three Satanic stations, that Satan in fact feels pain and groans in agony!!

      Believe that and you will believe anything! In actual fact the devil, and who is obviously not sitting at those silly alters waiting to be aimed at, is probably laughing his head off and rejoicing for succeeding in deviating the millions of idol worshippers from the sole aim of Hajj, which is to ‘Praise and commemorate God’.

      In reality Satan has taken up two or three days of their valuable Hajj days to utter his name!! The fact that they are stoning him and cursing his name and not singing his praises is totally insignificant, simply because of the following facts:

      1- The devil is made of fire and thus cannot be touched by physical matter (stones).

      2- The devil is not sitting in these silly holes waiting to be stoned!

      3- No human has the power or ability to see the devil or to be able to inflict him with any harm.

      “O children of Adam, do not let the devil dupe you as he did when he caused the eviction of your parents from Paradise……………………He and his tribe see you, while you do not see them” 7:27

      4- Every precious hour and day of the Hajj should be spent in commemorating the name of God Almighty alone, and not to utter the name of Satan. The Quran emphasises that the only duty of believers in the Hajj is to commemorate the name of God. The various verses
      that speak of Hajj in the Quran constantly emphasises this sole purpose of Hajj:

      “And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage …………… they shall commemorate God’s name during the specified days for providing them with the livestock” 22:27-28

      “You shall commemorate God for a number of days” 2:203
      “While you file from ‘Arafat’ you shall commemorate God ……….” 2:198

      “As you complete your rites, you shall continue to commemorate God……” 2:200

      5- God Almighty has prescribed to us in the Quran the only way to deal with the devil and that is to seek refuge in God and not to throw silly stones!!!

      “Say, ‘My Lord, I seek refuge in You from the whispers of the devils, and I seek refuge in You, my Lord, lest they come near me.” 23:98

      It is no surprise after this obvious act of idolatry, to find that most of the people who die every year during Hajj in fact die at the location of the stoning, could this be a hint from God to warn the masses of their act of idolatry?

      5- The Hajj garments

      It has been a tradition that in Hajj men should wear two seamless white wrappings, one worn around the waist and the other thrown loosely over the shoulder. Also nothing made of metal may be worn to the extent that even a safety pin may not be used to tie the wrappings together!

      As mentioned before it is fine to follow the traditions that we have inherited, whether they came from as far back as Abraham or not, as long as they do not violate any Quranic commands .

      When we look closely at this deep rooted tradition we find that not only does it contradict the wisdom of the Quran, but it also violates a clear Quranic verse. When we contemplate the wisdom of the Quran, we clearly realise that on no occasion is a dress code a requirement of any ritual or form of worship.

      Instead God Almighty stresses the fact that He will judge people by what is in the heart and not by what they wear:
      “Only those who came to God with a pure heart (will be saved).” 26:89

      The tradition goes that the Hajj garments are a part of the state of ‘Ehraam’.

      The word ‘Ehraam’ in Arabic means abstention, thus these garments are worn so as to abstain oneself from anything ostentatious. However all the requirements of ‘Ehraam’ are also included in the Quran, and they do not speak of any dress code.

      The only abstentions mentioned in the Quran during Hajj are abstentions from war, hunting, sex, cutting one’s hair, misconduct and arguments.

      More important, the Hajj garments, which have become an integral part of the Hajj violates the following Quranic verse:
      “O children of Adam, you shall take ‘Zinatakom’ to every masjid.” 7:31

      The word ‘Zinatakom’ means (your Zina). The word ‘Zina’ literally means adornments or anything worn to make oneself beautiful. Since the verse said “every masjid” and no exception in the Quran has been made to this totality, then it must be understood that this includes the ‘Masjid Al-Haraam’ as well.

      God does not forget or make mistakes, if He wished to exclude the ‘Masjid Al-Haraam’ from this command He would have surely done so.

      What this really means is that God wants us to dress in nice clothes and adorn ourselves with beautiful things, as long as we are not too flashy, so as to treat the visit to the masjid as a happy and festive occasion.

      One cannot help but wonder, what could be more genuine than celebrating the trip to answer God’s call in a happy and peaceful manner?

      I have often contemplated the happy mood and nice appearance of Christians when they go to Christmas Mass. In a way I have always seen good things in that. Commemorating and glorifying the Lord God should always be a happy occasion, not a terrifying experience!!

      I suppose our behaviour stems from our nature (Arabs in particular) of dramatising everything, and in indulging in morbid states of self denial, thinking that the exaggerated gloom adds an air of sincerity to our actions!!! Again this is far from the truth. The credibility of any action or its sincerity lies only in the heart.

      The classic excuse given by the Muslims for wearing the Hajj garments is their claim that it equates the rich with the poor. They add that the poor will not feel uncomfortable or embarrassed by their dress since all look alike. The answer to that is very simple.

      The Friday congregational prayer has no dress code, everyone wears what they like, yet no one feels uncomfortable or embarrassed by what they wear.

      It is not a problem simply because the general mood of the people in the masjid is one of worship, no one is interested in what others are wearing! If the mood in the Hajj is even much more of an adoration to God Almighty, it does not make sense to think that it would be a problem to anyone.

      Furthermore, the poor person would be better off going to Hajj in whatever clothes he’s got. This will save him the expense of going out and buying the Hajj costume (towels, special sandals and leather belt).

      If 7:31 provides us with the Quranic evidence that the Hajj dress code is not Quranic, there is also a rational and logical confirmation to reject the dress code. To explain this logic it must first be stressed that God will never command the believers to perform a certain practice and then make it impossible for them to exercise it.

      God decreed for us to perform Hajj anytime during the four specified months. Now, if the present dress code was a genuine requirement for Hajj, and due to the corruption of today’s Muslim in restricting the Hajj to a ten day period, it would be impossible for a genuine believer to go to such places as Arafat and Mena to perform the rites of Hajj dressed in the Hajj garments anytime outside the ten day period.

      The corrupt authorities would not permit him to do so, further still he would probably be stoned by the idol worshippers!

      However, and if he is dressed in normal clothes, he would be allowed in and given access to do a ‘Umrah’ and also be permitted to visit the holy sites like Arafat and Mena in plain clothes. In actual fact he would be doing his Hajj.

      God the Most Merciful by allowing the believers to wear normal clothes during Hajj has in effect made it possible for them to follow His law anytime during the four months in spite of the idol worshippers.

      6- Hajj by Deputisation !

      God asserts the fact that no soul will be accountable to the sins of another, and also that no soul will be credited from the deeds of another ……… in other words each soul will be held accoutable only to what it has done …….

      “Every soul is responsible only for his/her own work” 53:39

      “………….no soul benefits except from its own work…..” 6:164

      In spite of these clear assurances in the Quran, we find Muslims today doing Hajj and Umrah for their dead relatives. They do that in accordance with various hadith that say that the prophet supposedly said that you can do Hajj, fast Ramadan, and also give Zakat on behalf of your dead relatives!

      The sad matter here is that they have believed unconfirmed hadith and ignored clear Quranic verses! Had they believed the Quran they would have known that these hadith are lies that the prophet of God is innocent off. Needless to say, the prophet would never preach what contradicts the Quran.

      7- Ihram (abstentions) during Umrah!

      The word ‘Ihram’ is used in the Quran in close relation to the ‘Shahr Al-Haram’ (the sacred months). These are clearly defined as being four months, during which Hajj may be observed.

      However, when Muslims observe their Umrah anytime during the year, they still get into a state of Ihram and the men wear the Hajj garments!

      Needless to say this is contrary to the law of the Quran, which dictates that ‘Ihram’ (abstention) should only be observed during the four sacred months of Hajj.

      As per the Quran, the believers may visit the Sacred Masjid and observe their Umrah without having to be confined to the abstentions outlined by God for Hajj.

      8- Women not allowed to do Hajj without a Mihrim!

      Not only does this corrupt restriction have no Quranic basis, but it is also an insult to all women. By definition, a Mihrim is any male who in God’s law is not entitled to marry the woman in question. Thus for any woman, her father, brother, son, grandfather ….. etc are all Mihrim.

      Thus this corrupt condition stipulates that if the woman is not accompanied by her husband, she is not allowed to do her Hajj unless she is accompanied by a ‘Mihrim’.

      God never set such restrictions in the Quran on women. Needless to say, it is one of a string of many male enforced rules by which the Muslim men subject their women to subordination.

      The origin of this corrupt condition, not surprisingly comes from yet another hadith that says that no man shall be in the company of a woman alone and in seclusion.

      Besides the fact that this rule is non-Quranic, a crowd of around two million visitors to Mecca during Hajj can hardly be described as a ‘seclusion’!

      Moreover, and to prove that this condition is nothing but a flagrant male dominant restriction, we may rightly inquire, that if it is prohibited for a male to be in the company of a woman alone, then why does not the man be required to take a Mihrim with him? Why does he not take his mother, daughter, sister ….etc?

      9- Women (during menstruation) deprived of their Prayers, (and thus not completing Hajj rituals) !
      A good believing woman once said to me:
      “God commanded married couples to abstain from sexual intercourse during the woman’s menstruation (2:222).

      Yet our Merciful God, who gave us the gift of worshipping Him to nourish our souls, has never deprived man nor woman of worshipping Him at all times (except for those who are intoxicated, or drunk).”
      She added :

      “What authority does man give himself to deprive the woman from observing her Salat, Fasting or indeed coming anywhere near a Masjid during menstruation?

      What authority does the man have to call us dirty during these days, when in fact, it is God’s system that allows the female body through menstruation to cleanse itself so that our bodies can start afresh?

      Ironically, by the power of God, the very first growth of every man inside his mother’s womb stems from that very same blood that supposedly makes us dirty and undeserving of God’s love and intimacy when we are shedding it. Please show me ANY justice or intelligence in this idolatry.”

      In actual fact, I could not give her an answer ! The only answer I had was that I am a man who is indeed totally ashamed of other ignorant men who call themselves Muslim yet twist, distort and corrupt God’s words to dominate and keep their women under subjection.

      Their claim that these restrictions come from the teachings of the prophet is yet another great insult to the integrity of the prophet of God. The prophet of God would never teach what is in contradiction to the Quran.

      These corrupted restrictions rob women from their rightful duty to worship God for seven days in every monthy. In the unlucky event of the woman menstruating during the Hajj days, and by depriving her of her duty to observe her Prayers, they prevent the woman from completing her Hajj rituals.

      Just as the ignorant ones have found some justification in upholding some fabricated hadith that claims that there are certain hours during the day when it is not advisable to worship God (hadith says that it is not advisalbe to pray during the hour before the sunset ‘Maghrib’ prayer !), they have also upheld fabricated hadith that deprives women of worshipping God for seven days every month !

      Those with any degree of intelligence would surely know that God would never deprive any human being of the benifit of Prayer due to a fault that is not their own !

      If we get drunk it is our fault. God warned us from intoxicants, thus it is understandable that we would be deprived of the gift of Prayer then, for we would not know what we are saying. But what fault has a woman during menstruation to be deprived of the gift of worshipping God Almighty???

      10- Corrupt Misconceptions:

      Many corrupt misconceptions have crept into the ideology of Hajj. These misconceptions have no Quranic basis whatsoever. The following are some examples:

      1- Although we are told in the Quran that the Sacred Masjid (Ka’bah) was built by Abraham and Ismail, and that God commanded them to proclaim Hajj as a fundamental ritual of submission, still the corrupt Muslim scholars claim that Hajj did not become compulsory till the 9th year after Hijrah !!!

      “We appointed Abraham to establish the Shrine: “You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those who visit it, those who live near it, and those who bow and prostrate.

      “And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations.” 22:26-27

      The words “And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage are self evident. To say after that that Hajj was not made compulsory till after the 9th year of Hijra is a flagrant lie against the Quran.

      2- Another misconception that has no origin in the Quran, is the claim that Hajj wipes out all previous sins. There are numerous hadith that say that whoever observes the Hajj returns without sins! Not only does this false concept has no origin in the Quran, but it is also a grave intrusion on God’s Will.

      We are told in the Quran that God being the Most Merciful may wipe out some of our sins or He may wipe out all of them for whom He pleases.

      However, to claim any knowledge of the application of God’s Mercy is undoubtedly a grave sin. Had we been told in the Quran that there is one single deed (as Hajj) that would wipe all our sins in a package deal, then we would have had reason to believe in such a concept.

      Needless to say, we are not told anything of the sort in the Quran.
      Had the corrupt scholars read the Quran carefully and believed it, they would have been assured that no one is entitled to claim any knowledge of God’s Mercy …… in the following verse God commands the prophet to say that even he does not know what will happen to him …………..

      “Say (O Muhammad), “I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner.” 46:9

      We know that the prophet performed his Hajj just before his death yet, contrary to that false concept, he is still to say that he does not know what will happen to him.

      THIRD:The price of abandoning God’s Law
      As a result of the Muslim’s rejection of God’s Law in the Quran for Hajj, the following evils have resulted:

      First The average number of Muslims who converge on Mecca annually to observe the Hajj is about two million. However, a conservative estimate of at least ten times this number (20 million) or more world-wide are refused visas due to the limited capacity of the land and facilities.

      The majority of these applicants may never get another chance to fulfil what is an integral part of their religion.

      The Quran says that it is the duty of every Muslim to observe Hajj, provided he can afford it, not if he is lucky to get a visa! (see 3:97)

      The question here is how can it be possible that God may decree a ritual for the believers and then make it very difficult for the majority of them to observe? In reality this question is not applicable unless God has in fact decreed only ten days for the Hajj, but because God has granted the believers four months every year to observe the Hajj, it becomes obvious that it is those who have changed God’s law who are really responsible for putting all the obstacles before those wishing to observe Hajj, and for making Hajj an overcrowded, hazardous and tense experience that can only be accomplished by the minority of people.

      If Hajj was spread over the four months appointed by God all those extra millions of Muslims would be able to observe Hajj. The tense atmosphere would also be eliminated.


      Due to the extreme overcrowding, many accidents, fires and deaths occur every year.

      The majority of the fatalities occur at the sight of the stoning, which is not really a coincidence but a sign from God to the those who perform the idolatrous act of stoning.

      Again, if Hajj was spread over the four months period all these accidents would be eliminated.

      As a result of the limited number of applications allocated for every country for Hajj, an evil situation has arisen where a number of travel agents who organise the Hajj trips have reduced Hajj to becoming an extremely profitable commodity!

      Some of these parasitic traders only work during the few weeks preceding Hajj extorting huge sums of money from travellers and living off those gains for the rest of the year! What they are doing is making extorted profits from selling what is in fact a religious duty!

      They advertise by saying ‘If you would like to do the Hajj, it will cost you such amount!’ The immorality of making extorted profits from Hajj is not any different from someone saying ‘If you would like to do your Prayers it will cost you so much!’


      Due to the huge number of people (two million) who visit Mecca in a period of a few days, the number of livestock being slaughtered far exceeds the necessary amount required to feed everybody.

      The result of which is that a great amount of meat is wasted, thrown away or rots under the hot sun. Once again, if God’s law was enforced and the Hajj spread over four months, there would be better control on the distribution of the surplus meat.


      Due to the extremely large crowds that are present at one time in a limited space, instead of having ample time for meditation and spirituality, the main concerns of the visitors are reduced to avoiding being robbed by petty thieves, avoiding being detached from their accompanying groups, avoiding being trampled on and avoiding being struck by flying stones at the stoning site!

      This is not to mention the problems related to washing facilities, cleanliness and hygiene.

      All these negative factors turn the journey of Hajj into a very hectic and strenuous experience instead of being a relaxing spiritual one.
      Needless to say the Law of God was enforced, and Hajj was restored to the four sacred months, all these problems would largely be eliminated.

      Due to the corrupt restriction on women, that they are not allowed to observe their Hajj unless they are accompanied by a Mihrim, the result is that thousands of women are deprived of their rightful right to observe the Hajj.

      Often the case is that on the particular year when a woman is ready to do her Hajj it is not always possible to find a ‘mihrim’ who is willing to travel and who is also able financially to afford the high cost of the Hajj journey.

    46. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 5:41 pm

      Here is an e-mail i recieved from a sister in Australia

      The 50 Salat Fairy Tale

      I hope that I’ll be able to finish this refutation of the hadith regarding
      50 salat down to 5. I promise to complete it later if interrupted.

      First, the idea is presented that Allah changes His mind about His own decrees or commands, influenced by the opinion of a human being, in this case Moses.

      This would make Moses interfering with and sharing power with Allah in the direction and formation of His commands, and this is a clear example of “shirk” or idolatry (alleging powersharing with Allah). The ayat in the Qur’an against “shirk” are so many, I’m sure you can find some yourself with ease.

      This is one of the major issues in the Qur’an, which mentions that Allah will not forgive anyone who applies “shirk” to Him, which is clearly done in this hadeeth.

      Second, it also implies that Allah did not directly communicate with
      Mohammad, but rather, Gabriel (Jibreel) took a circuitous route through “seven heavens”, stopping by Moses to chat along the way.

      It also implies that Mohammad “went up” to Allah to receive revelations, not that the revelations were all “sent down”.

      The Qur’an repeatedly mentions the Qur’an and all revelations and Books were “sent down” – “tanzeel”, and nothing about “going up” or a prophet “sending up a couple of questions regarding the revelations”.

      The revelations are perfect and complete, sent down directly to the prophet, who cannot do anything other than dellivering the
      message intact – or risk eternal damnation, a great responsibility for which there is risk and reward.

      Neither Gabriel nor any prophet disputes Allah’s revelations, and those who do are disbelievers – kafirreen. Says somehting about the writers of this hadeeth.

      Third, the statement by Moses that “your people cannot perform 50 salat” per day and the subsequent gradual reduction in number implies directly that Allah (glory to Him in the highest) DOES NOT KNOW this fact and needs Moses to tell Him!

      It implies that God in His ignorance requested that humans perform more salat than they were able to perform, and needed the “mercy” of Moses to correct this misunderstanding on His part. God forgive us all!!!!!! This is kufr – rank disbelief – in the first degree!!!

      This clearly contradicts the Qur’an in every level and all faith of any value.

      Were one to cynically claim that the above is not implied, but rather that Allah sent this 50 salat as a “test” of some kind, knowing full well it would be reduced to 5 – this sort of logic further implies that Allah is
      playing games with us, and not telling us what He wants directly.
      Definitely out of order!

      Fourth, just a lesser point, Moses claims “my nation is stronger than your nation” in his attempt to convince Mohammad to go and request a further reduction in salat.

      This hadeeth is supposedly narrated by ibn Jabeer, who supposedly was a converted Jew. Interesting that he wants the “jewish prophet” to somehow supercede Mohammad, and to claim that Jews, who refused to fight to enter the promised land, are weaker than Muslim followers of Mohammad, who fought and entered lands from Morocco to Malaysia – a pretty impressive stretch of real estate.

      I think the latter outdid the former who spent their time wandering and idolworshippping.

      In short, this hadeeth is pure kufr – it implies that God is not omniscient, that He is not all-Merciful, that He is not even all-powerful, and that we need go-betweens to get what we want out of Him.

      This is the exact line of thinking of most talmudian Jews, who were influencial in bringing this hadeeth to the light of day. This is the line of thought of only and exclusively “mushrikeen”, whom Allah will never forgive, but only curse and condemn.

      I think the point is clear. If you have any other specific hadeeths you
      want refuted, just ask. Another one I can jump on is the one that claims Moses was so weak when he entered Madyan that “the soles of his feet fell off” and “his stomach stuck to his back” and “the green color of the beans he ate showed through his skin”.

      Logic alone makes this hadeeth a laughing stock, but also the fact that in the Qur’an, the maidens Moosa met at the watering well, one of whom he married, noted that he was “a strong/vital and honest man.” That directly contradicts this hadeeth, beyond the outrageous imagery.

      It’s a long list. I hope your sheikh has ears to hear.

      Wafa el-Tayeb Omar

    47. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 5:47 pm


      Blah blah blah……this is quite funny if it was not so serious…..i think you and JayMeal are very ignorant egomaniacs……i have argued that two plus two is four, and presented you with a picture of two and two and ask you to count it…. you have ignored the questions, and merely repeated your claims…….so i guess i’m just going to ignore you both and just continue to post/expose your fake beliefs which are anti-Allah…anti-Quran and anti-Prophet Muhammad.

      wa layka

    48. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 6:05 pm

      Compilation of the Quran

      Many Muslims are under the impression that the Prophet Muhammad died without compiling the Quran in the form of a book and left it written on shoulder blades of animals, tree trunks, etc (according to the books of ahadith), and later his companions gathered all these verses and compiled them in a book form.

      We will examine this claim in two sections: one, we will see the evidence from the Quran that the Prophet Muhammad compiled the Quran; and two we will examine some of the stories associated with the compilation of the Quran from the hadith books and see if these stories attest to the authenticity of the Word of God or do they try to cast doubt about the Word of Allah

      I will, inshaAllah, comment on both these topics.

      1. First of all, the claim that the Quran was written down later just like the hadith is incorrect. The Messenger of Allah, himself had written down the Quran during his lifetime. The Quran refers to itself in so many places as the BOOK (Kitab), which comes from the root word “KaTaBa”, meaning ‘written record’.

      For example:

      Ta Sin! These are the verses of the Quran, the Book that makes (things) clear (27:1)

      A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know. (41:3)

      Or have We given them a book before it so that they hold fast to it? (43:21)

      The reference to the word “kitaab” makes it clear that Allah is talking about a written record, and not an oral record. We are further told in the Quran:

      A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages. (98:2)

      Here reference is made to “suhufan” – pages from which the Messenger was reading Allah’s ayaat.

      In addition, Allah tells us that the Messenger was not able to write a book before the Quran, when He says:

      And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted. (29:48)

      Therefore, we see that the Quran provides evidence that the Prophet had the Quran written on pages and he used to read them. In addition to the Quranic evidence, commonsense also does not accept the fact that Allah’s Messenger, whose job was to deliver the Message of the Quran, did not preserve the Quran during his lifetime and left it for ordinary human beings to do.

      Now, if you read the alleged stories about the collection of the Quran in the books of hadith you will notice that these are stories made up by the enemies of Allah who wanted to create doubt in the minds of the believers about the authenticity of the Quran. Here I will mention a few examples that will show what kind of rubbish do the books of hadith contain about the Quran:

      (a) Alleged verses that are not in the Quran:

      Muslim: Book 8, Number 3421:

      Narrated Aisha: It had been revealed in the Quran that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah’s Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) died and it was before that time (found) in the Qu’an (and recited by the Muslims).

      Muslim: Book 8, Number 3427:

      Narrated Aisha: Umm Salamah said to Aisha: A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon Aisha said: Don’t you see in Allah’s Messenger (peace_be_upon_him) a model for you?

      She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhayfah said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of AbuHudhayfah about him, whereupon Allah’s Messenger (peace_be_upon_him) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely).

      According to these ahadith, in the beginning the Quran talked about 10 sucklings, which then was “abrogated” and changed to five sucklings, which remained in the Quran and was recited by people after the death of the Messenger. Where are these verses today? Were they lost after the death of the Messenger?

      Malik’s Muwatta: Book 41, Number 41.1.8:

      Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab from Ubaydullah ibn Abdullah ibn Utba ibn Masud that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, “I heard Umar ibn al-Khattab say, ‘Stoning is in the Book of Allah for those who commit adultery, men or women when they are muhsan and when there is clear proof of pregnancy or a confession.’”

      Malik’s Muwatta: Book 41, Number 41.1.10:

      Malik related to me that Yahya ibn Said heard Said ibn al-Musayyab say, “When Umar ibn al-Khattab came from Mina, he made his camel kneel at al-Abtah, and then he gathered a pile of small stones and cast his cloak over them and dropped to the ground. Then he raised his hands to the sky and said, ‘O Allah! I have become old and my strength has weakened. My flock is scattered. Take me to You with nothing missed out and without having neglected anything.’ Then he went to Medina and addressed the people.

      He said, ‘People! Sunan have been laid down for you. Obligations have been placed upon you. You have been left with a clear way unless you lead people astray right and left.’ He struck one of his hands on the other and then said, ‘Take care lest you destroy the ayat of stoning so that one will say, “We do not find two hadds in the Book of Allah.”

      The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, stoned, so we have stoned. By He in Whose Hand my self is, had it not been that people would say that Umar ibn al-Khattab has added to the Book of Allah ta-ala, we would have written it, “The full-grown man and the full-grown woman, stone them absolutely.” We have certainly recited that.’”

      Malik said, “Yahya ibn Said said Said ibn al-Musayyab said, ‘Dhu’l-Hijja had not passed before Umar was murdered, may Allah have mercy on him.’ ”

      Yahya said that he had heard Malik say, “As for his words ‘The full-grown man and the full-grown woman’ he meant, ‘The man and the woman who have been married, stone them absolutely.’ ”

      So these verses were part of the Quran (the same hadith in a much longer version is also recorded in Bukhari), but are NOT there any more. And Umar, who was supposed to be such a strong ruler, was AFRAID of the people instead of Allah and knowingly did not put these verses in the Quran?

      However, another well-respected muhadith had another easier explanation:
      (Burhan al Din al Baji, “Jawab”, MS Dar al Kutub, Taimur “majami`”, no. 207, f. 14)

      `Ali reported that the stoning verse had been revealed but those who bore it together with other verses in their memories perished in the Yemama.

      So part of the Quran was simply lost after the Prophet due to the death of the people who remembered it?

      (Jalal al Din `Abdul Rahman b. abi Bakr al Suyuti, “al Itqan fi `ulum al Qur’an”, Halabi, Cairo, 1935/1354, pt 1, p. 60):

      ibn `Abbas asked `Uthman what possessed him to place surat al Anfal, one of the mathani, with Bara’a, one of the mi’in, join them with no bismillah between them and place them among the seven lengthy suras. `Uthman replied that often the Prophet received quite long revelations. He would call for one of the scribes and say, ‘Put these verses in the sura in which so-and-so occurs.’

      Anfal was among the first of the Medina revelations and Bara’a among the last. Since its contents resembled those of Anfal, `Uthman took it to belong with it, for the Prophet had died without explaining that it was part of it.

      So, the reason why we do not have a “bismillah” at the beginning of chapter nine (known as “al-Bara’a”, or “al-tauba”) is NOT because Allah revealed it in such a way – but it was due to a MISUNDERSTANDING of Uthman??

      But wait – that is not the only explanation provided by the books of hadith for this missing bismillah:
      (Jalal al Din `Abdul Rahman b. abi Bakr al Suyuti, “al Itqan fi `ulum al Qur’an”, Halabi, Cairo, 1935/1354, pt 1, p. 65)

      Malik had a shorter explanation for the absence of this bismillah. The beginning of Bara’a fell out and its bismillah fell out with it.

      This is the kind of rubbish that the books of ahadith contain regarding the Quranic records – with missing verses, and misunderstandings and lost verses. Is this the same Book that Allah promised He would protect?



    49. What's the point May 23rd, 2009 at 7:13 pm

      This is typical, people will conjure “proof” from websites they copy and paste from and try and overwhelm their opponent in a debate. If someone wanted to, they could post TONS of anti-shia stuff too – but that would be bad manners – although it seems Arab Aribah has invited himself to it. People who copy and paste articles from others aren’t really debating, and have no right to ask for a rebuttal, because they themselves don’t actually know what they are talking about – but are taking the defense of others opinions.

      It’s like taking your opponent to a library of books, and saying this is my opinion and these are my proofs.

      This debate had been going on for 1400 years between shias and sunnis, (whether Arab Aribah wants to admit that he’s shia or not) and its not going to be resolved in this humble blog. The only thing that will be produced here is more hate, and more slander, and more sin. The opinions of both sides of the argument will be left with more fervor in trying to prove their points of view after every rebuttal.

      Look how foolish we are, this blog post was about America vs the Muslims – and you know what?! – the Western powers doesn’t have to fight us, we are fighting ourselves!!!! And yet we pray to the same Allah Subhanuatala, we fast in the same month, we pray in the same direction, make the same Hajj, and love and follow the same Prophet!!!!!

      WHAT ARE WE DOING?????

    50. What's the point May 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 pm

      You want to show you are a big man don’t do it by posting your limited intelligence in the comments section of some blog – do it by proving to us that you’re mature enough that you don’t need to have the last word.

    51. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 pm

      and if you were in a debate with somone are you trying to tell me that you would not make reference to what others have said about your own beliefs?…what a hypocrisy!…that means you can never quote your favourite Imam Bukhari at ANY time because in reality they are his works and not your own….other people use other peoples quotes as references or to support their own opinion….nothing wromg with that buddy so long as you acknowledge the author… makes no difference who wrote it…what matters is whether you can respond to it…..if not then just leave it alone.

      and no i am not a shia…if you would have read what i have posted you can see that they ( Shia ) are included amongst the criticism too

    52. What's the point May 24th, 2009 at 12:13 am

      Before I continue, I want to share what our dear friend Arab Aribah has said before:

      you have a feeble and cowardly excuse that you believe the words are not mine!….as if that makes any difference….i guess you must be a mind reader and have super natural powers to know this….i can see you are ignorant of the facts and quite happy to stay so….and what about your ‘concern’ about saving others who might be reading?….look at you pathetic answer to the phrase ‘inshallah’….i bet you did not even look it up in the Quran despite the fact that i gave you the verse ……that is because ahl Sunna are Quran REJECTORS

      Notice that he not only claims the words he speaks are his own, but in the heat of passion, he ignorantly calls ahl sunnah (sunni muslims, the vast majority of muslims on the earth) rejectors of the quran. Such a ridiculous statement is sure to nullify his credibility. And the following is a list of websites he has copied and pasted from, which you will see he has copied from word for word, and therefore secures the fact that he is an outright liar because of his statement where he implies the words are his: “you have a feeble and cowardly excuse that you believe the words are not mine”. His credibility as both an intellectual and honest person is destroyed.

      To Arab Aribahs last post:

      Quoting things is one thing, copy and pasting entire articles is an entirely different thing – and is a cowardly way of not really responding to anything,rather using other peoples works as your argument. In a court of academia – it’s called nothing more than plagiarism.

      Like stolen articles:

      and this one:

      and this one:

      and this one:

      and this forum:

      Oh yes – i know how to use google too. The arguments are old, and If i wanted to, i could bring forth a lot of copying and pasting from sites who dedicate their time against “quranis” – but quite honestly you’re not worth my time, because you don’t want to reason with the opinions of others. If you did you would have had a REAL conversation, actually trying to consider what others are saying. Instead you just copy and pasted a bunch of crap which I have clearly proved aren’t your works, and are probably things you haven’t even read fully. You’re intention is not an open-minded discussion of reason, intellect, and tolerance, for the sake of seeking truth, you’re intention is a biased agenda to attack sunni’s.

      You remind me of those children who when are asked to do chores close their eyes, cover their ears with their hands and scream “LA LA LA LA LA – I CAN’T HEEEEEEEEEEAR YOU!!!!” and then stick their tongues out of their faces. you have the same childish attitude decorated with words of a larger vocabulary – and your version of this childish attitude is illustrated in the way you pollute this forum with plagiarized work – and it has cost you you’re intellectual credibility.

      As for me calling you shia – I am sorry, I didn’t read what you read earlier simply because I didn’t feel like going through all of the plagiarized work you posted.

      On a more serious note, if you want to continue taking the verses of quran and interpreting to suit your own desires, then continue doing so. If you want to use your long and stretched out explanations and interpretations of the quran to reject the instructions of the dear Prophet May Peace Be upon him, then continue to do so.

      Continue to try persuade people your illogical reasoning, and make your own dawah, and we will make our dawah. Allah Almighty is the won who guides the hearts, not me or you. So I have faith in Allah Almighty, and I am satisfied with my Prophet May Peace Be upon him, and I have complete loyalty and belief in that which he May Peace Be Upon Him has prescribed for us – and I hope that I will purify myself enough in this life so that I will be raised near him, May Peace be upon him.

      And on the day when Allah Almighty will balance our deeds, we will see the true meaning of :

      4: 59- O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

      Assalamualaykum Wah Rahmatullahi Wah Barakatuh.

    53. Arab ‘Aribah May 24th, 2009 at 7:25 am

      what could be more obnoxious than you and you ilk who believe that Monkeys get married and stone each other to death for adultery!!!!!!
      And at the same time believe that with this type of crap you belong to a ‘saved’ sect!

      Thats right scurry off and hide behind your Madhab of lies, illogical nonsense, fabrications and blasphems….when Truth comes False Things/beliefs will always perish

    54. Usman Akhtar May 26th, 2009 at 2:15 am

      Ahhh – nothing like a good debate between the quranis and the sunnis – this seems interesting.

    55. w May 26th, 2009 at 2:19 am

      what’s the point – good rebuttal

    56. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

      You realise that the above strategy is hopeless, but attempt the equally laughable ruse of denying the occurrence of serious flaws within the ahl al sunna religion of Rock, Building and Human worship……….your dissembling is irrelevant……what is relevant, is the provision of evidence…….ie…you need to prove that there was indeed marriages between monkeys as supposedly witnessed by a companion of the Prophet through the fairy tales of Hadith collated by Bukhari…….you two are sooo funny it’s unreal………how is it plagiarism when i have named two of the articles posted by the authors?????…not only did i name two people i even provided a link as well….as for some of the others one can easily see that i have copied those articles but without referencing who wrote them because that resource was not available in the format that i recieved it….nor do i see that as relevent…..even a 5 year old can see that they were articles that brothers/sisters had taken time to write and not just conjured up in a five minute response to some goobldegook rhetoric on a sunni blog !…..also how do you know that Olive and Arab aribah on Sudan. net is not one and the same person?… do you know that i do not have various pen names?… don’t know do you?… only assumed….just as you assumed i was a Shia……..i’m quite suprised you have not accussed me of being a Jew….ther favourite enemy’ of ahl al sunna and their Shia brethren!!!lol…..Suyuufi is also refering to Olive as a she!……..the main point is neither of you have addressed the issues raised and have used palgiarism as an excuse not to respond….instead as usual you babble on in the absence of evidence, logic or reason which just makes it appear as if you are a blind sheep following your bearded saint pastor…..otherwise just atleast try to explain why you believe monkeys got married, and could stone each other to death if they found another committing adultery…we don’t have to go into anything deep since i can see you are not ready for that……now I asked you….ehem sorry…referred to you…..specific questions about Hadiths and sunna practises and how they contradict the Quran… didn’t answer….. but instead conentrated on my sources of questioning and wether they were original or not… nif they makes any difference!!!!!….so am I to assume that you are your own source for your Rock, Building and Human worship claims?

      If so, then present your evidence. Otherwise present your source.

      If you have no evidence and no source, then….STEP OFF!!!!!

      and by the way a big thanks to Whats The Point for highlighting those links…now you have given others the opportunity to to explore for themselves….even though that might niot have been your intention……imagine a follower of ahl al Sunna directing others to Ahl al Quran links…. i’ve heard some say God works in misterious ways….now that is True


    57. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

      Ok this is my last comment then i’ll leave you alone….and i’ll respond direct to what you have sated rather then dodge the issue

      Olive was the name used on a link provided by your friend W…..I am laso known as Olive and i am not a woman!

      Stoning was NEVER in the Quran as your blasphemous Hadiths states…brother do you really know what you are saying?…according to one version of why the stoning verse is missing is because it was eaten by a goat!…everytime stoning is mentioned in the Quran it is associated with Pagans/IDOLWORSHIPPERS…is this a coincidence that the initiators of ahl al Sunna who have deviated from the kitab ALLAH infavour of conjecture, hearsay and at times utter nonsense!

      The Following is something that i have copied and pasted for you.

      Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid: ‘Umar Ibn al Khataab said” Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book, Quraan, to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Ayah of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Ayah and understood and memorized it.”( Bukhari: Volume 8, Book 82, Number 815)

      This and other narration quoted by those who call themselves Muslims are also fabrications because they have some implications which cannot be true.

      The main implication of this is that The Quraan we have today is NOT COMPLETE because the “Ayah” of Rajam as SUPPOSIDLY mentioned by Umar above is NOT IN THE QURAAN WE HAVE. This cannot be true because Allah has PROMISED to PROTECT the QURAAN.

      However, some people insist on having stoning in the Law of Allah. They would go to ANY lengths to corrupt the PURE message of Allah. Not satisfied with the stories of stoning of humans in the books of hadith, they included monkeys in it also to show that somehow stoning is a “Natural” law:

      Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:
      Narrated ‘Amr bin Maimun:
      “During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.”

      The questions that arise from this are:

      1. Do Monkeys have Nikah?
      2. What does it mean for a Monkey to commit “Zina” after being “married”?
      3. How did Amr bin Maimun know that the she-monkey had committed Zina?

      Is this not a desperate attempt to give stoning a Divine “Yes”? But wait, there is more. After creating the stories of the Prophet stoning people, and after creating stories about monkeys getting stoned, the people realized that the Book of Allah DOES NOT mention stoning. So they TURNED to the famous “Theory of Abrogation”, and INVENTED false Quraanic “ayaat” about stoning, and made up stories that these “ayaat” were “abrogated” and taken out of the Quraan during the TIME OF UMAR, but the RULING of stoning is valid – what a twisted mentality. Anyway, the proponents of stoning created the following hadith to “strengthen” the “evidence” that Allah WANTS stoning:

      Imam Malik’s Muwatta
      Book 41 No. 10
      Malik related to me that Yahya ibn Said heard Said ibn al-Musayyab say, “When Umar ibn al-Khattab came from Mina, he made his camel kneel at al-Abtah, and then he gathered a pile of small stones and cast his cloak over them and dropped to the ground. Then he raised his hands to the sky and said, ‘O Allah! I have become old and my strength has weakened. My flock is scattered. Take me to You with nothing missed out and without having neglected anything.’ Then he went to Madina and addressed the people. He said, ‘People! Sunan have been laid down for you. Obligations have been placed upon you.

      You have been left with a clear way unless you lead people astray right and left.’ He struck one of his hands on the other and then said, ‘Take care lest you destroy the ayat of stoning so that one will say, “We do not find two hadds in the Book of Allah.” The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, stoned, so we have stoned. By He in Whose Hand my self is, had it not been that people would say that Umar ibn al-Khattab has added to the Book of Allah ta-ala, we would have written it, -

      The full-grown man and the full-grown woman, stone them absolutely.” We have certainly recited that.’” Malik said, “Yahya ibn Said said Said ibn al-Musayyab said, ‘Dhu’l-Hijja had not passed before Umar was murdered, may Allah have mercy on him.’ ” Yahya said that he had heard Malik say, “As for his words ‘The full-grown man and the full-grown woman’ he meant, ‘The man and the woman who have been married, stone them absolutely.’ ”

      Very interesting hadith. Beside the obvious contradiction with Allah’s Promise to Protect the Quraan, this hadith as explained by Malik ALSO creates an interesting image of Umar, the companion of the Prophet. He was the Khalifah and a man of such a strong character, but he is presented as someone who is AFRAID of PEOPLE. He does not seem to be afraid of Allah for leaving His Book “incomplete”, but he is afraid what people might say.

      For centuries proponents of stoning shoved down this hadith down people’s throats, until someone did more research into it and found out that the chain of narrators was not sound. What a shame. It takes someone to look at the “chain of narrators” to classify this hadith as “weak” (note: they still don’t call it a fabrication) after many years. Do these people really believe in the Quraan?

    58. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

      Suyuufi you have not rebutted anything…all you have done is insist on the sunna being a priority and how we SHOULD follow the messenger ( which i agree with you actually ) ….whereas i have shown and proven that the means to which you have decide to follow the messnger are are seriously questionable even ridiculous and it makes no difference whether 2,3 05 million people believe in this wrong is wrong…and Allah dioes not base His truth on numerical superiority….you are either right or wrong

      May Allah Guide You

    59. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

      To The Reader

      Ahl al Quran are Muslims by an unmistakeable Quranic definition….ahl al Sunna and Shia are something completely different although they will swear blind that they believe in Allah, the Quran and The Prophet….the only way to refute them is to quote them their own sources

      Here is what one of their SAINTS claim happen to one of Allah’s revelations…..the Kufr is blatant for anyone to see aprt from those who have been made DUMB.DEAF AND BLIND

      Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith # 1934)

      1.’The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept
      under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper.

      (Sunan Ibne Majah, Volume 2, Page 39, Published Karachi)
      2. When the verses “Rajm”[Stoning] and ayah “Rezah Kabir” descended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad a goat ate the piece of paper while we were mourning.
      Hadhrath Ayesha also testified to a ‘missing’ verse on stoning.“When the verses “Rajm”[Stoning] and ayah “Rezah Kabir” descended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad (S) a goat ate the piece of paper while we were mourning.- Sunan Ibne Majah, Volume 2, Page 39, Published Karachi.

    60. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

      You mean i don’t understand Monkeys stoning each other because of adultery?….or a goat eating a piece of paper containing this so-called Quranic verse and now it is ‘missing’?….sure i don’t understand…sure i don’t….i’m even glad that i don’t ….i don’t think you and all those who follow this foolishness do either

    61. Arab ‘Aribah May 27th, 2009 at 8:34 am

      I’ve given you ample opportunity to enlighten me regarding your monkeys and goats as well as your rock worshipping during Hajj but instead you keep repreating..’you won’t understand…you wont understand’….what is it i wont undesrstand eh?….arabic is my first language…i have been speaking, reading and writing it from a very young age…..i grew up in a typical sunni family household… what is it your going to tell me that i don’t know or atleast have not heard of already?……you see that is the problem with ahl al sunna teachings very few peole understand them….you don’t understand them….this sect has created it’s own mish mash of conflicting nonsensical rheotoric and having the audacity to claim it as authentic words of the Prophet….Allah told us that this Deen is easy to understand and places no burden on anyone…yet ahl al sunna with it volumes upon volumes of conflicting Hadith, conflctingscholars opinions and conflicting ijma……the so-called ulema, always abrogate the Quran with the Hadith……there are a thousand and one places where the common, Muslim in his simple-hearted devotion contradicts the dictates of True Islam according to the Quran, because he assumes that the ulema are saying the correct things to him…..every Muslim infact most of them do not have the patience or time to go through the massive volumes of Hadith to prove or argue this or that point, he or she has a family to look after and a job to keep. … he simply thinks/trusts that these Imams and the information they pass out is correct…….but little do they know that the Quran at many places teaches exactly the opposite!

      In fact, they don’t want to know, because then they will have to begin to study and understand the Quran and use their brains…..their religion will no longer be just a confusing set of rituals that they simply have to follow…..their religion will become a life and death question for them.

    62. Arab ‘Aribah May 27th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

      Ijma simply means agreement between a group of people……however as we know there are conflicting ‘agreements’ on the same subject ie is music halal or haram….is suicide bombing halal or haram……what about Art?…some patrhetic so-called scholars were even against Micky Mouse!…there is absolutely nothing scientific about that at all…whoever thinks that studying/understanding Hadiths is a science is trully deluded…..speaking of psuedo science…did you hear about one of your eminent scholars from Saudi…the late Shaik bin Baz who once declared that the earth was flat as opposed to being round and that anyone who believed otherwise was a disbeliever and their blood and belongings are halal!

      Today’s Muslims, like past generations, fell into the satanic trap of fabrication, and idolized Muhammad. They accepted him as the source of the religion, which according to Quran is idol worship (6:114; 9:31; 12:40; 18:26, 109,110; 41:6; 46:9).

      They put his name next to the name of Allah in the “shahadah”, and this is idol worship (39:45; 3:18; 37:35). They added his name in the “Adhan” and disobeyed Quran (72:18; 2:285; 3:18).

      They attributed to him many names of Allah such as Raheem, Raouf, Azeez, Hafeez, Haseeb, Mujeeb, Awwal, Ahir, Kareem, Hakeem…

      They put his name right next to Allah’s name in the mosques. By stories of intercession, they accepted him as a rescuer from God (2:123,254; 6:70,94; 7:53; 10:3,18,49; 13:16; 39:44,45; 43:86; 74:48; 82:17-19).

      They praised his name more than Allah by abusing the verse 33:56 (For the correct meaning of 33:56 see the verse 33:43 and 9:103 which “salla” means “encourage/support”, not “praise”).

      They accepted him as sinless from birth till death (18:110; 41:6; 47:19; 48:2; 33:37; 42:52; 93:7). Ironically, Sunni and Shiite Muhammadans are not aware of their idolatry. They claim that they are monotheists (6:23).

      Allah commands us not to make any distinction among messengers (2:285). Believers’ attitude towards Allah’s commandments is to say “we hear and we obey”; but those who manipulate words say “we hear and we disobey” (4:46).

      Allah has blessed His messengers with different peculiarities. In 2:253 He gives some examples of these peculiarities, such as His speaking directly with Moses, and giving profound miracles to Jesus and supporting him with the Holy Spirit.

      In 17:55 He states that He had preferred some messengers to others by giving each of them different blessings, such as endowing David with Psalms. But Allah did not mention anywhere that He had preferred this messenger over that messenger.

      According to 2:285, we do not have the right to make a preference list for messengers. Otherwise, idolizing messengers and falling into a baseless dispute is inevitable.

      Take Care Brother

    63. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 6:22 am

      Bin Baz did write about a flat earth and a moving sun in his book……al-Adilla al-Naqliyya wa al-Hissiyya `ala Jarayan al-Shamsi wa Sukuni al-Ard …this was CLEARLY written in arabic if you know how to read it…he even quoted other ‘scholars’ such as al-Razi….he refused photograpic evidence claiming that it was a fabrication by the Kufr……later on i think someone had a quiet word with him as this was causing embarrassment not just to the Wahhabi sect but to Saudians in general….it was then he tried to deny that he ever made that statement.

      Ijma means collective agreement…that is what it literally means in classical arabic….it is an old word….you can look it up in lisan al arab…..however my point is there are diasgreements on almost every single Issue in Hadiths Sunna from the very minute to the very very serious…there is no way you can say ALL…what you really men is all within a certain sect…….like i said earlier ijma literally means collective agreement….it later on developed to mean by a certain group of people ie mujtahideen……as a result of the following hadith……”My community will never agree on an error.” …….yet we see untold amounts of disagreements amongst the scholars….does thia mean that most o what they disagree on is in error?….again it all depends on which sect you belong to….how can one permit suicide bombing but another claim it is haram and yet both of them will claim to be following the sunna?

    64. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 9:07 am

      Another sunni muslim defying scientific and Quranic fact and claiming that the planet Earth is flat

    65. Anonymous May 28th, 2009 at 11:35 am

      Arab ‘Aribah has totally refuted and silenced al-Suyuufi throughout the posts here. no doubt al suyuufi can not reply to the various embarrassing and lame ahadeeth arab’aribyah has posted to show how retarded and moronic the belief of ahlul sunnah is! well done brother!!

    66. MR May 28th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

      @Anonymous – Are you joking me? Arab ‘Aribah only writes nonsense. I leave his comments just to show whomever comes here to see how backward people like that think. May Allah guide us all.

      @Arab ‘Aribah – Please continue to share your comments. It’s a nice laugh. :-D May Allah reward you for making me smile.

      Every person that I have met that thinks and talks like Arab ‘Aribah are either thugs, deadbeat bums or straight up live kufr lifestyles. I’m not saying that all their people are like this. They basically contradict themselves by not following their own rules. I’m saying every person that I have met who deny hadith are like this. May Allah guide them all.

      So Arab ‘Aribah continue to make me laugh. :-D Plus you also give me more hits. Double :-D :-D!

    67. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

      Ok Suyuufi first you thought i was a shia…then you thought i was a girl….you also accussed me of copying other peoples post ( NOT DENYING THAT I HAVE NOT USED SOME COLLEAGUES WORKS )and pretending it was mine despite me NAMING NAMES of the authors either at the beginning or end of MOST of them…now your saying that i am ‘anonymous’…..MR should be able to tell if i am using two nameskes by the IP Address……but i don’t need to do that ….what for?…….trust me Suyuufi you are no competition……i could take on 10 of you at the same time…….no problem…bring it on…as someone like MR would say…..and yet you still have not refuted anything i have said.

      Greetings MR…with language like that and from some of the posts i see here i can tell you’re one of those Young Hip Hop Muslims…you know a muslim whose ‘down’…..but thats cool….i don’t think Music is haram either although i don’t have time for any of that Hip Hop Busta Rhymes BS who seem to impress you because they say they are muslims……..i’m glad that you appreciate my presence here…but i’m not going to be around for much longer….i think i’ve made my point….and even if just one person gets to see the light…thats good enough for me……so keep on reading…as matter of fact i’ve got a real juicy article coming up soon

    68. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

      Suyuufi i’m not attacking ahl al sunna…whatever gave you that idea?
      It is some of the teachings of ahl alsunna which are ATTACKING ISLAM that is the problem….there are many agreeable teachings from certain segments of ahl al sunna jsut as there are with ahl al bait followers…but it’s the blatant descrepancies and very devient beliefs which need to be highlighted, exposed and refuted….i have nothing personla agianst you….man i don’t even know you…and wakllahi i wish only good for you but this is a dialogue that needs to be had…it is taking place all over the world amongst Muslims…and ahl al sunnites do not like it…so the best thing they do is make violent threats…then make a fatwa…then accuse some one of being a murtad…and we all know what comes next….if what ahl al sunna is propagating is so true then why do they always kill those who disgree with them?…why not follow the Quranic verse of To You Be Your Way and To Me be mine……but nooooooo you have hadith which encouarges the murder of those who disbelieve in your teachings despite the Quranic verses on no compulsion and freedom of belief

    69. Anonymous May 28th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

      MR im not joking with you. ive read all the posts here, and arab arabiyah has totally shutted up al suyuuti. i havent seen al suyuuti or anyone for that matter respond to many ahadeeth arab arabiyah showed. so its very obvious that mr suyuuti has no response to them at all

      LMAO @ “6. I will not leave your falsehoods unrefuted”

      then why dont u mister, start responding to arab arabiyah’s posts on the hadeeth issues? o.O

    70. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

      anonymous….now Suyuufi is calling for the whole thing to be deleted!!!!…wow…now what does that tell you about his attitude to oppositional viewpoints….this is why most muslim countries are run by dictatorships who silence the opposition….i can’t even say i feel sorry for him because in realty…i don’t…each to their own

    71. MR May 28th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

      @Anonymous and @Arab ‘Aribah and all those who reject Muhammad (saas) – 16:44

      And Allah knows best.


      PS – Read the Qur’an ! It’s easy and clear!

      PPS – Rashad Khalifa is not the messenger of God. Muhammad (saas) is the last and final messenger of God. :-D Please read the Qur’an. It’s not that difficult to read. Even the English does a pretty good job of explaining this.

      @al-suyyufi – there falsehood is easy to spot here. Even a 10-year old knows better. Seriosly you’ll never find young children denying hadith. It’s a phase that I know many people go through. InshaAllah I pray for Arab ‘Aribah and Anonmyous to be guided.

      You know what else is funny. They reject the Prophet (saas), the sahabas, the tabieen, the tab tabieen, and pretty much 1000s of scholarship and they only accept their own people from the 1900s. So it’s basically Qur’an and their scholars. Pretty dumb and sad.


    72. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

      Why Is It ‘Sunna’ To Pray In Silence??????

      The verse quoted below Commands that we should recite or speak out our daily prayers, neither in a loud tone nor in the low tone but in the MIDDLE TONE……this is an explicit, unambiguous Command and that leaves NO ROOM for reciting any of our Daily Prayers SILENTLY.

      To do so, after knowing this explicit text, amounts to deliberate defiance or disobedience of the Allah’s Command.

      وَلاَ تَجْهَرْ بِصَلاَتِكَ وَلاَ تُخَافِتْ بِهَا وَابْتَغِ بَيْنَ ذَلِكَ سَبِيلاً
      And neither speak thy Prayer aloud nor speak it in a low tone but seek a middle course between. Sura Al-Israa (17) verse 110 Translation by Yusuf Ali

      Some time back I asked a learned Muslim friend, who often leads the prayers at private gatherings; Why he was not reciting the Zohr and ‘Asr prayers in the audible tone like the Maghrib and ‘Isha prayers?……..the response I got back was that we Sunni Muslims are supposed to follow the Sunna (the legal way or ways) of the Prophet (s.a.s.) and the Prophet used to recite these two prayers silently.

      If that was the reality for a Muslim, then the next question that needs to be addressed is……. Can the Sunnat-ur-Rasool (Prophet’s Law) take precedence over the Sunnat’ullah (Allah’s Law)?

      Besides, how can a believer in Allah’s Word reconcile the verse number 6: 50 that reads: “Say, [O' Muhammad]… I but follow what is revealed to me.” And, the verse number 10: 64 that reveals: “No change can there be in the Words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme Felicity.”

      As for NOT following the Revealed Verses and instead following the ways of our forefathers, scholars and saints please read:

      “When they are told to follow the (revelation) that Allah has sent down they say: “Nay we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following).” What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of Fire! Qur’an 31: 21.

      So can anyone expalin why the zohr and Asr prayers are done in absolute silence or at best whispering?….bear in mind that ‘whispering’ is one of the communication methods of the Jinn or Evil people

      [114:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

      [114:1] Say, “I seek refuge in the Lord of the people.

      [114:2] “The King of the people.

      [114:3] “The god of the people.

      [114:4] “From the evils of sneaky whisperers.

      [114:5] “Who whisper into the chests of the people.

      [114:6] “Be they of the jinns, or the people.”

    73. Green Child May 28th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

      @ Arab Arrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebah (ever watch speedy gonzales?)

      Anyways, you have a right to your opinion. You have many proofs and evidences, and the truth is, if you’re expecting a real refutation of them on some blog where the average reader is between i’d say 12 and 30 years of age (and I’m completely guessing here) then I think you came to the wrong place.

      I see that you are sincere in finding answers from what you have previously said:

      “i’m not attacking ahl al sunna…whatever gave you that idea?
      It is some of the teachings of ahl alsunna which are ATTACKING ISLAM that is the problem….there are many agreeable teachings from certain segments of ahl al sunna jsut as there are with ahl al bait followers”

      If you sincerely want to understand and clarify the issues you brought up with hadith then go to the scholars of hadith and ask them. They have a much better understanding of hadith then the laymen you will find on this blog. It’s important to consider that the compilation of Hadith were written by scholars for scholars, and not just for the layman – and it is why people run into a lot of confusion when just quoting hadith, because even hadith have a context, and the scholars of hadith know and can explain that context in the best way. Just as how non-muslims will sometimes quote verses of the quran out of context to make it seem that Islam supports oppression and murder.

      You can ask any Muslims scholar on any website like for example about any questions regarding hadith, although I do advise you do so with good manners. Otherwise there is no point in posting more and more arguments here because no one can answer them for you – this is a Muslim blog, not a Scholar blog.

      If you want to continue posting a library of copied articles, you can do that also, although it may be better manners to just leave a link, as to not pollute the forum.

      Inshallah you’ll find the answers you’re looking for if you keep an open mind, and ask the questions to people who can actually answer them. The simple reason many cannot answer the multitude of questions and issues you posed is because most Muslims have accepted the authentic ahadith in their entirety because of the verse:

      “4: 59- O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.”

      You can interpret it the way you want to, but most Muslims interpret this verse in a way that obliges them to both the Quran and hadith. The vast majority of Muslims have accepted all hadith without ever having read all of them because they have faith in them, just like how the vast majority of Muslims accept the whole quran without ever reading all of its chapters.

      May Allah SWT guide us all.

      Assalamualaykum Wah rahmatullahi Wah Baraktuh.

    74. Green Child May 28th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

      “You can interpret it the way you want to, but most Muslims interpret this verse in a way that obliges them to both the Quran and hadith. The vast majority of Muslims have accepted all hadith without ever having read all of them because they have faith in them, just like how the vast majority of Muslims accept the whole quran without ever reading all of its chapters.”

      I wanted to add, that in effect, they accepted all of the ahadith without ever having to read them all, and ever having to defend them, much the way muslims who have never read the whole quran accept it, and never have to defend any of its verses.

    75. Arab ‘Aribah May 29th, 2009 at 9:45 am

      Rejecting nonsensical, fabricated or contradictory Hadith does not equate to rejecting Prophet Muhammad….you are using ahl al sunna presumtious mentality to respond to ahl al sunna criticism!….where have i rejected the Prophet Muhammad anywhere throughout this thread?…can you please show me!……how can i reject Muhammad when i am using verses from the Quran knowing fully well that he was the one who delivered it’s message!….your logic is ridiculous to say the least….but i put it down to lack of reasoning, ignorance or maybe brainwashing….trust me i’ve been there before….i mean look at what you are advising…here you see me heavily criticising the so–called sunna and Hadiths because of their idiocy, contradiction of the Quran and insults to the Prophet…yes thats right many Hadiths insult the Prophet making him look like an ignorant, sex crazed, intolerant, chauvinistic barbarian….one does not need to study anything it’s there in black and white in both Arabic and English….and yet you want me to go and ask a ‘scholar’ to explain it to me?

      Bukhari (7.030) narrated Abdullah bin Umar:
      Allah’s Apostle said, “Evil omen is in the woman, the house and the horse.”

      Bukhari (ref: 1.298); narrated Aisha:
      The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were junub [the unclean state after sexual intercourse]. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in itikaf (see note below) he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in periods (menses).

      Bukhari (Ref: 1.299) Narrated Abdur Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
      Aisha said: “Whenever Allah’s Messenger wanted to fondle anyone during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an izar and start fondling her.” Aisha added “None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet.”

      Bukhari (ref: 7.590), narrated Anas:
      The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to proceed along with his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as medicine). So they proceeded along with the shepherd i.e. the camels, and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet (pbuh) he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.

      Bukhari (Ref: 9.130) Narrated Anas bin Malik:
      Allah’s Messenger used to visit Um Haram bint Milhan and she was the wife of Ubada bin As-Samit. One day the Prophet visited her and she provided him with food and started looking for lice in his head. Then Allah’s Messenger slept and afterwards woke up smiling[...]

      Saheeh Bukhari 97/24
      “On the Day of Judgement, Allah will open His leg and show his thigh to the Prophet.”

      Saheeh Bukhari 10/129
      “Allah will show His leg to the believers and they will fall prostrate.”

      It is difficult to imagine anyone capable of such rank treachery and stupidity that depicted in the first two hadiths – let alone ascribe such a chauvenist nature to our Prophet! It is difficult, also, to imagine a situation where someone else’s wife would be looking for lice on the Prophet’s head and if his supposed regular trips to see her, particularly as the Quran enjoins believing men and women to lower their gaze and be modest, an injunction which would seem to preclude such a suggestive intimacy…… Being purely objective, academic, and looking at the facts, do you still think that al-Bukhari is a reliable source for hadith?

      And as for you Mister Green what has Rashad Khalifa got to do with this?…i am aware of him and i agree and disagree with his teachings……Rashad Khalifa rejected Hadiths yes that’s true but did I tell you that I am following him?…..i have made it clear that I belong to no sect….follow no imam….no madhab….no ahl this…jamaa that….none of these labels are what Allah has asked us to be MUSLIMS….but you just have to label people don’t you….you just can’t help yourself….there have been criticism of Ahadiths from as early as the Abbassid era…so it is not something new….there are Quran only scholars all over the world….there always has been….just because you have not of heard from them does not mean that they are/were not there…now I’m giving you that opportunity to thibk for yuourself instaed of running off to some bearded old man in the masjid……i’ve been there before….nothing new.

      Obviously what you bring to the Quran is what it gives back to you. So i am not disputing your personal interpretation of the Quran as your individual choice and its validity for you right now, as you seem sincere enough…….my argument is only intended in the spirit of debate …… your way of interpreting hadith is based on medieval ideologies and thought patterns that go against the very nature of revealed religions…..they go against logic, reason and common sense… a khutba last Friday the Imam said it was haram for women to watch Football because they could see the men’s knees!!!!

      Can you imagine that type of logic in the year 2009…as if women get turned on by seeing mens knees…that brother was backward…those are the kind of people we have as religious leaders….people like that are running whole countries….no wonder most muslim countries are in a stae of confusion as well as being poor and backward….when Islam was at the heights of it’s splendour…during the Abbassid era…during the Moorish Spain era…they were SECULAR societies…that’s why they were so progressive…they studied the sciences, the Arts, Medicine, Archaelogy, Theology…this is the Quranic definition of the word ‘ulemaa’…….they achieved thia succes without compromising their faith……unlike todays ulema they were not sitting around with pot bellies and long beards questioning whether it is halal or haram to urinate standing up or if it was ok to celebrate ones birthday or if Pepsi Cola was a drink made to oppress muslims…….that type of mentality will never build any great progressive Muslim society…they will always be stagnant deeply believing that their austere existence will bring them closer to Allah….it’s quite pathetic really

    76. Anonymous May 29th, 2009 at 10:05 am

      @ MR

      I don’t follow Rashad Khalipha. I don’t know where you got that view from. Yes many “submitters”, a.k.a “Qu’ranists” may follow him, but I don’t, and please refrain from jumping into conclusions.

      I was a Sunni, and I left AhlulSunnahWalJama’ah, due to the many Ahadeeth, that no one can seem to explain, rather attempt to delete the thread which contains them! They are very embarrassing, lame, and moronic. I know Sunni’s become very ashamed when they have to see them, and the fact they are authentic. In fact most Sunni’s are not aware of their existence, and when showed, they begin to doubt their faith, and finally leave. Many blindly believe they are un-authentic because they can’t believe how retarded they are, but when shown that’s not the case, they leave this belief immediately! I have many friends, and their are many people, who have left the Sunnism. Many Ahadeeth make the Prophet look like a stupid person.

      They demean his character. Do you know most Atheist, Christian, and Jewish sites that attack Islam, use those pathetic Ahadeeth to attack Islam as a whole? Show what type of person the Prophet was? Using all those gross and disgusting Ahadeeth!

      I pray that you can open your eyes, and see the disgust in what is in those books of so called “sahih” Bukhari, Muslim, and the other filthy texts.

      Really thank you Arabiyah. It was people like you who showed me the truth about Sunnism that made me leave. I was not aware of how utterly disgusting it really is. I hope the best for you. May your knowledge be increased, and please carry own silencing the barking dogs! :D

    77. MR May 29th, 2009 at 11:17 am

      @Arab ‘Aribah and Anonymous – All your comments, criticism, so called refutations mean nothing to me. The fact that you are a random Muslim blog on a thread where the original post was about the war in Iraq discussing the validity of Hadith in Islam is ridiculous.

      Instead of asking laymen who don’t have any years of studying in an Islamic university or school under any major shaykh you should go and meet with some scholars of Ahlul Sunna.

      There is a huge conference coming up in DC July 4th weekend. Attend that if you are near it – The ISNA Convention. If your in Canada, there is also a huge conference in Toronto that same weekend – The Journey of Faith Convention.

      If you sincerely go up to the scholars and ask them to explain the validity of the hadith.

      Do you reject all the hadith? If so you are rejecting the Prophet (saas), because the hadith are the sayings and actions of the Prophet (saas). The Qur’an is the word of God. It is God’s message to humanity. The Prophet (saas) simply recited it for the people to listen. So obeying the Qur’an is obeying Allah. What about the Prophet (saas)? Didn’t Allah tell us to follow the Prophet (saas)? When you go to Hajj, what do you do? Do you follow the people? If so, then you are following the hadith. What do you do when you fast in Ramadan? How do you fast? If so you are following the Hadith. How do you even pray? Do you even pray 5 times a day?

      Are your parents, children, uncles, aunts, cousins all reject the Hadith like you? Are you willing to say that they are deviant because they follow the hadith?

      Arab ‘Aribah How old are you? Seriously. I’m 24 years old. Married. Working full time. Your turn. Tell me about yourself. Why I’m I asking this? Because every Hadith rejector I know is under the age of 30. Once they get older or get married and start a family the come back to Ahlul Sunnah. Same thing with Hizb ut Tahrir, or Extreme Jihadi movements. It’s always the youth that are zealous in their own groups way, but when they get older and settle down, they all come back to true moderate Islam.

      You said all the anti-Islam sites quote hadith and not Quran. Have you ever watched FOX News or listen to Robert Spencer or Irshad Manji or any popular Islam hater. They almost always quote the Qur’an. Rarely quote hadith. Just YouTube and you will see.

      You said you don’t follow Rashad Khalifa. But you sound just like him and his followers. And they think he was a Messenger of God. The fact that you spit out his garbage and then deny him as your leader or shaykh or teacher is pretty sad. Who is your teacher then? Who is your scholar that INTERPRETS the Quran for you? I guess HIS hadith is worth more than the hadith of the Prophet (saas). Your teacher’s ways are better than the Prophet’s (saas) way? May Allah forgive you

      This is not the best place to continue to discuss this. I advise everyone to go join this forum and continue it there:

      I know I said to continue, but it’s getting a little out of hand. It was funny at first, but the fact that you guys continue to reject the Prophet (saas), yes you are rejecting him (saas), is sad. The fact that you preach the same garbage from a man who claimed to be a Messenger of God is even more sad.

      Your cult only started a few decades ago. So all the Muslims from 1000 years back are all deviant for following Hadith? All the Muslim scientists, doctors, mathematicians, politicians, etc. who made great scientific discoveries which you use today thanks to them are deviant?

      Again, I ask you. Will you raise your children to reject the Prophet (saas)?

      Continue the discussing here:

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