The End - 2000 to 2009

WARNING: Contains extremely foul language.

May Allah (swt) protect the innocent and remove the oppression from them. Ameen!


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  • 77 Responses for "America will never win in Iraq or anywhere in the Muslim world"

    1. Arab ‘Aribah May 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 pm

      and if you were in a debate with somone are you trying to tell me that you would not make reference to what others have said about your own beliefs?…what a hypocrisy!…that means you can never quote your favourite Imam Bukhari at ANY time because in reality they are his works and not your own….other people use other peoples quotes as references or to support their own opinion….nothing wromg with that buddy so long as you acknowledge the author…..it makes no difference who wrote it…what matters is whether you can respond to it…..if not then just leave it alone.

      and no i am not a shia…if you would have read what i have posted you can see that they ( Shia ) are included amongst the criticism too

    2. What's the point May 24th, 2009 at 12:13 am

      Before I continue, I want to share what our dear friend Arab Aribah has said before:

      you have a feeble and cowardly excuse that you believe the words are not mine!….as if that makes any difference….i guess you must be a mind reader and have super natural powers to know this….i can see you are ignorant of the facts and quite happy to stay so….and what about your ‘concern’ about saving others who might be reading?….look at you pathetic answer to the phrase ‘inshallah’….i bet you did not even look it up in the Quran despite the fact that i gave you the verse ……that is because ahl Sunna are Quran REJECTORS

      Notice that he not only claims the words he speaks are his own, but in the heat of passion, he ignorantly calls ahl sunnah (sunni muslims, the vast majority of muslims on the earth) rejectors of the quran. Such a ridiculous statement is sure to nullify his credibility. And the following is a list of websites he has copied and pasted from, which you will see he has copied from word for word, and therefore secures the fact that he is an outright liar because of his statement where he implies the words are his: “you have a feeble and cowardly excuse that you believe the words are not mine”. His credibility as both an intellectual and honest person is destroyed.

      To Arab Aribahs last post:

      Quoting things is one thing, copy and pasting entire articles is an entirely different thing – and is a cowardly way of not really responding to anything,rather using other peoples works as your argument. In a court of academia – it’s called nothing more than plagiarism.

      Like stolen articles:

      http://www.submission.org/hadith/sunnahdogma.html

      and this one:

      http://www.quran-islam.org/168.html

      and this one:

      http://www.submission.org/muhammed/glorify.html

      and this one:

      http://www.geocities.com/islamicdiscussions/compilation.htm

      and this forum:

      http://www.sudanforum.net/showthread.php?p=365648

      Oh yes – i know how to use google too. The arguments are old, and If i wanted to, i could bring forth a lot of copying and pasting from sites who dedicate their time against “quranis” – but quite honestly you’re not worth my time, because you don’t want to reason with the opinions of others. If you did you would have had a REAL conversation, actually trying to consider what others are saying. Instead you just copy and pasted a bunch of crap which I have clearly proved aren’t your works, and are probably things you haven’t even read fully. You’re intention is not an open-minded discussion of reason, intellect, and tolerance, for the sake of seeking truth, you’re intention is a biased agenda to attack sunni’s.

      You remind me of those children who when are asked to do chores close their eyes, cover their ears with their hands and scream “LA LA LA LA LA – I CAN’T HEEEEEEEEEEAR YOU!!!!” and then stick their tongues out of their faces. you have the same childish attitude decorated with words of a larger vocabulary – and your version of this childish attitude is illustrated in the way you pollute this forum with plagiarized work – and it has cost you you’re intellectual credibility.

      As for me calling you shia – I am sorry, I didn’t read what you read earlier simply because I didn’t feel like going through all of the plagiarized work you posted.

      On a more serious note, if you want to continue taking the verses of quran and interpreting to suit your own desires, then continue doing so. If you want to use your long and stretched out explanations and interpretations of the quran to reject the instructions of the dear Prophet May Peace Be upon him, then continue to do so.

      Continue to try persuade people your illogical reasoning, and make your own dawah, and we will make our dawah. Allah Almighty is the won who guides the hearts, not me or you. So I have faith in Allah Almighty, and I am satisfied with my Prophet May Peace Be upon him, and I have complete loyalty and belief in that which he May Peace Be Upon Him has prescribed for us – and I hope that I will purify myself enough in this life so that I will be raised near him, May Peace be upon him.

      And on the day when Allah Almighty will balance our deeds, we will see the true meaning of :

      4: 59- O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

      Assalamualaykum Wah Rahmatullahi Wah Barakatuh.

    3. Arab ‘Aribah May 24th, 2009 at 7:25 am

      what could be more obnoxious than you and you ilk who believe that Monkeys get married and stone each other to death for adultery!!!!!!
      And at the same time believe that with this type of crap you belong to a ‘saved’ sect!

      Thats right scurry off and hide behind your Madhab of lies, illogical nonsense, fabrications and blasphems….when Truth comes False Things/beliefs will always perish

    4. Usman Akhtar May 26th, 2009 at 2:15 am

      Ahhh – nothing like a good debate between the quranis and the sunnis – this seems interesting.

    5. w May 26th, 2009 at 2:19 am

      what’s the point – good rebuttal

    6. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

      You realise that the above strategy is hopeless, but attempt the equally laughable ruse of denying the occurrence of serious flaws within the ahl al sunna religion of Rock, Building and Human worship……….your dissembling is irrelevant……what is relevant, is the provision of evidence…….ie…you need to prove that there was indeed marriages between monkeys as supposedly witnessed by a companion of the Prophet through the fairy tales of Hadith collated by Bukhari…….you two are sooo funny it’s unreal………how is it plagiarism when i have named two of the articles posted by the authors?????…not only did i name two people i even provided a link as well….as for some of the others one can easily see that i have copied those articles but without referencing who wrote them because that resource was not available in the format that i recieved it….nor do i see that as relevent…..even a 5 year old can see that they were articles that brothers/sisters had taken time to write and not just conjured up in a five minute response to some goobldegook rhetoric on a sunni blog !…..also how do you know that Olive and Arab aribah on Sudan. net is not one and the same person?…..how do you know that i do not have various pen names?…..you don’t know do you?…..you only assumed….just as you assumed i was a Shia……..i’m quite suprised you have not accussed me of being a Jew….ther favourite enemy’ of ahl al sunna and their Shia brethren!!!lol…..Suyuufi is also refering to Olive as a she!……..the main point is neither of you have addressed the issues raised and have used palgiarism as an excuse not to respond….instead as usual you babble on in the absence of evidence, logic or reason which just makes it appear as if you are a blind sheep following your bearded saint pastor…..otherwise just atleast try to explain why you believe monkeys got married, and could stone each other to death if they found another committing adultery…we don’t have to go into anything deep since i can see you are not ready for that……now I asked you….ehem sorry…referred to you…..specific questions about Hadiths and sunna practises and how they contradict the Quran…..you didn’t answer….. but instead conentrated on my sources of questioning and wether they were original or not…..as nif they makes any difference!!!!!….so am I to assume that you are your own source for your Rock, Building and Human worship claims?

      If so, then present your evidence. Otherwise present your source.

      If you have no evidence and no source, then….STEP OFF!!!!!

      and by the way a big thanks to Whats The Point for highlighting those links…now you have given others the opportunity to to explore for themselves….even though that might niot have been your intention……imagine a follower of ahl al Sunna directing others to Ahl al Quran links…. i’ve heard some say God works in misterious ways….now that is True

      Tara

    7. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

      Ok this is my last comment then i’ll leave you alone….and i’ll respond direct to what you have sated rather then dodge the issue

      Olive was the name used on a link provided by your friend W…..I am laso known as Olive and i am not a woman!

      Stoning was NEVER in the Quran as your blasphemous Hadiths states…brother do you really know what you are saying?…according to one version of why the stoning verse is missing is because it was eaten by a goat!…everytime stoning is mentioned in the Quran it is associated with Pagans/IDOLWORSHIPPERS…is this a coincidence that the initiators of ahl al Sunna who have deviated from the kitab ALLAH infavour of conjecture, hearsay and at times utter nonsense!

      The Following is something that i have copied and pasted for you.

      Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid: ‘Umar Ibn al Khataab said” Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book, Quraan, to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Ayah of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Ayah and understood and memorized it.”( Bukhari: Volume 8, Book 82, Number 815)

      This and other narration quoted by those who call themselves Muslims are also fabrications because they have some implications which cannot be true.

      The main implication of this is that The Quraan we have today is NOT COMPLETE because the “Ayah” of Rajam as SUPPOSIDLY mentioned by Umar above is NOT IN THE QURAAN WE HAVE. This cannot be true because Allah has PROMISED to PROTECT the QURAAN.

      However, some people insist on having stoning in the Law of Allah. They would go to ANY lengths to corrupt the PURE message of Allah. Not satisfied with the stories of stoning of humans in the books of hadith, they included monkeys in it also to show that somehow stoning is a “Natural” law:

      Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:
      Narrated ‘Amr bin Maimun:
      “During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.”

      The questions that arise from this are:

      1. Do Monkeys have Nikah?
      2. What does it mean for a Monkey to commit “Zina” after being “married”?
      3. How did Amr bin Maimun know that the she-monkey had committed Zina?

      Is this not a desperate attempt to give stoning a Divine “Yes”? But wait, there is more. After creating the stories of the Prophet stoning people, and after creating stories about monkeys getting stoned, the people realized that the Book of Allah DOES NOT mention stoning. So they TURNED to the famous “Theory of Abrogation”, and INVENTED false Quraanic “ayaat” about stoning, and made up stories that these “ayaat” were “abrogated” and taken out of the Quraan during the TIME OF UMAR, but the RULING of stoning is valid – what a twisted mentality. Anyway, the proponents of stoning created the following hadith to “strengthen” the “evidence” that Allah WANTS stoning:

      Imam Malik’s Muwatta
      Book 41 No. 10
      Malik related to me that Yahya ibn Said heard Said ibn al-Musayyab say, “When Umar ibn al-Khattab came from Mina, he made his camel kneel at al-Abtah, and then he gathered a pile of small stones and cast his cloak over them and dropped to the ground. Then he raised his hands to the sky and said, ‘O Allah! I have become old and my strength has weakened. My flock is scattered. Take me to You with nothing missed out and without having neglected anything.’ Then he went to Madina and addressed the people. He said, ‘People! Sunan have been laid down for you. Obligations have been placed upon you.

      You have been left with a clear way unless you lead people astray right and left.’ He struck one of his hands on the other and then said, ‘Take care lest you destroy the ayat of stoning so that one will say, “We do not find two hadds in the Book of Allah.” The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, stoned, so we have stoned. By He in Whose Hand my self is, had it not been that people would say that Umar ibn al-Khattab has added to the Book of Allah ta-ala, we would have written it, –

      The full-grown man and the full-grown woman, stone them absolutely.” We have certainly recited that.'” Malik said, “Yahya ibn Said said Said ibn al-Musayyab said, ‘Dhu’l-Hijja had not passed before Umar was murdered, may Allah have mercy on him.’ ” Yahya said that he had heard Malik say, “As for his words ‘The full-grown man and the full-grown woman’ he meant, ‘The man and the woman who have been married, stone them absolutely.’ ”

      Very interesting hadith. Beside the obvious contradiction with Allah’s Promise to Protect the Quraan, this hadith as explained by Malik ALSO creates an interesting image of Umar, the companion of the Prophet. He was the Khalifah and a man of such a strong character, but he is presented as someone who is AFRAID of PEOPLE. He does not seem to be afraid of Allah for leaving His Book “incomplete”, but he is afraid what people might say.

      For centuries proponents of stoning shoved down this hadith down people’s throats, until someone did more research into it and found out that the chain of narrators was not sound. What a shame. It takes someone to look at the “chain of narrators” to classify this hadith as “weak” (note: they still don’t call it a fabrication) after many years. Do these people really believe in the Quraan?

    8. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

      Suyuufi you have not rebutted anything…all you have done is insist on the sunna being a priority and how we SHOULD follow the messenger ( which i agree with you actually ) ….whereas i have shown and proven that the means to which you have decide to follow the messnger are are seriously questionable even ridiculous and it makes no difference whether 2,3 05 million people believe in this wrong is wrong…and Allah dioes not base His truth on numerical superiority….you are either right or wrong

      May Allah Guide You

    9. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

      To The Reader

      Ahl al Quran are Muslims by an unmistakeable Quranic definition….ahl al Sunna and Shia are something completely different although they will swear blind that they believe in Allah, the Quran and The Prophet….the only way to refute them is to quote them their own sources

      Here is what one of their SAINTS claim happen to one of Allah’s revelations…..the Kufr is blatant for anyone to see aprt from those who have been made DUMB.DEAF AND BLIND

      Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith # 1934)

      1.’The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept
      under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper.

      (Sunan Ibne Majah, Volume 2, Page 39, Published Karachi)
      ———-
      2. When the verses “Rajm”[Stoning] and ayah “Rezah Kabir” descended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad a goat ate the piece of paper while we were mourning.
      ———-
      Hadhrath Ayesha also testified to a ‘missing’ verse on stoning.“When the verses “Rajm”[Stoning] and ayah “Rezah Kabir” descended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad (S) a goat ate the piece of paper while we were mourning.- Sunan Ibne Majah, Volume 2, Page 39, Published Karachi.

    10. Arab ‘Aribah May 26th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

      You mean i don’t understand Monkeys stoning each other because of adultery?….or a goat eating a piece of paper containing this so-called Quranic verse and now it is ‘missing’?….sure i don’t understand…sure i don’t….i’m even glad that i don’t ….i don’t think you and all those who follow this foolishness do either

    11. Arab ‘Aribah May 27th, 2009 at 8:34 am

      I’ve given you ample opportunity to enlighten me regarding your monkeys and goats as well as your rock worshipping during Hajj but instead you keep repreating..’you won’t understand…you wont understand’….what is it i wont undesrstand eh?….arabic is my first language…i have been speaking, reading and writing it from a very young age…..i grew up in a typical sunni family household…..so what is it your going to tell me that i don’t know or atleast have not heard of already?……you see that is the problem with ahl al sunna teachings very few peole understand them….you don’t understand them….this sect has created it’s own mish mash of conflicting nonsensical rheotoric and having the audacity to claim it as authentic words of the Prophet….Allah told us that this Deen is easy to understand and places no burden on anyone…yet ahl al sunna with it volumes upon volumes of conflicting Hadith, conflctingscholars opinions and conflicting ijma……the so-called ulema, always abrogate the Quran with the Hadith……there are a thousand and one places where the common, Muslim in his simple-hearted devotion contradicts the dictates of True Islam according to the Quran, because he assumes that the ulema are saying the correct things to him…..every Muslim infact most of them do not have the patience or time to go through the massive volumes of Hadith to prove or argue this or that point, he or she has a family to look after and a job to keep. …..so he simply thinks/trusts that these Imams and the information they pass out is correct…….but little do they know that the Quran at many places teaches exactly the opposite!

      In fact, they don’t want to know, because then they will have to begin to study and understand the Quran and use their brains…..their religion will no longer be just a confusing set of rituals that they simply have to follow…..their religion will become a life and death question for them.

    12. Arab ‘Aribah May 27th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

      Ijma simply means agreement between a group of people……however as we know there are conflicting ‘agreements’ on the same subject ie is music halal or haram….is suicide bombing halal or haram……what about Art?…some patrhetic so-called scholars were even against Micky Mouse!…there is absolutely nothing scientific about that at all…whoever thinks that studying/understanding Hadiths is a science is trully deluded…..speaking of psuedo science…did you hear about one of your eminent scholars from Saudi…the late Shaik bin Baz who once declared that the earth was flat as opposed to being round and that anyone who believed otherwise was a disbeliever and their blood and belongings are halal!

      Today’s Muslims, like past generations, fell into the satanic trap of fabrication, and idolized Muhammad. They accepted him as the source of the religion, which according to Quran is idol worship (6:114; 9:31; 12:40; 18:26, 109,110; 41:6; 46:9).

      They put his name next to the name of Allah in the “shahadah”, and this is idol worship (39:45; 3:18; 37:35). They added his name in the “Adhan” and disobeyed Quran (72:18; 2:285; 3:18).

      They attributed to him many names of Allah such as Raheem, Raouf, Azeez, Hafeez, Haseeb, Mujeeb, Awwal, Ahir, Kareem, Hakeem…

      They put his name right next to Allah’s name in the mosques. By stories of intercession, they accepted him as a rescuer from God (2:123,254; 6:70,94; 7:53; 10:3,18,49; 13:16; 39:44,45; 43:86; 74:48; 82:17-19).

      They praised his name more than Allah by abusing the verse 33:56 (For the correct meaning of 33:56 see the verse 33:43 and 9:103 which “salla” means “encourage/support”, not “praise”).

      They accepted him as sinless from birth till death (18:110; 41:6; 47:19; 48:2; 33:37; 42:52; 93:7). Ironically, Sunni and Shiite Muhammadans are not aware of their idolatry. They claim that they are monotheists (6:23).

      Allah commands us not to make any distinction among messengers (2:285). Believers’ attitude towards Allah’s commandments is to say “we hear and we obey”; but those who manipulate words say “we hear and we disobey” (4:46).

      Allah has blessed His messengers with different peculiarities. In 2:253 He gives some examples of these peculiarities, such as His speaking directly with Moses, and giving profound miracles to Jesus and supporting him with the Holy Spirit.

      In 17:55 He states that He had preferred some messengers to others by giving each of them different blessings, such as endowing David with Psalms. But Allah did not mention anywhere that He had preferred this messenger over that messenger.

      According to 2:285, we do not have the right to make a preference list for messengers. Otherwise, idolizing messengers and falling into a baseless dispute is inevitable.

      Take Care Brother

    13. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 6:22 am

      Bin Baz did write about a flat earth and a moving sun in his book……al-Adilla al-Naqliyya wa al-Hissiyya `ala Jarayan al-Shamsi wa Sukuni al-Ard …this was CLEARLY written in arabic if you know how to read it…he even quoted other ‘scholars’ such as al-Razi….he refused photograpic evidence claiming that it was a fabrication by the Kufr……later on i think someone had a quiet word with him as this was causing embarrassment not just to the Wahhabi sect but to Saudians in general….it was then he tried to deny that he ever made that statement.

      Ijma means collective agreement…that is what it literally means in classical arabic….it is an old word….you can look it up in lisan al arab…..however my point is there are diasgreements on almost every single Issue in Hadiths Sunna from the very minute to the very very serious…there is no way you can say ALL…what you really men is all within a certain sect…….like i said earlier ijma literally means collective agreement….it later on developed to mean by a certain group of people ie mujtahideen……as a result of the following hadith……”My community will never agree on an error.” …….yet we see untold amounts of disagreements amongst the scholars….does thia mean that most o what they disagree on is in error?….again it all depends on which sect you belong to….how can one permit suicide bombing but another claim it is haram and yet both of them will claim to be following the sunna?

    14. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 9:07 am

      Another sunni muslim defying scientific and Quranic fact and claiming that the planet Earth is flat

    15. Anonymous May 28th, 2009 at 11:35 am

      Arab ‘Aribah has totally refuted and silenced al-Suyuufi throughout the posts here. no doubt al suyuufi can not reply to the various embarrassing and lame ahadeeth arab’aribyah has posted to show how retarded and moronic the belief of ahlul sunnah is! well done brother!!

    16. MR May 28th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

      @Anonymous – Are you joking me? Arab ‘Aribah only writes nonsense. I leave his comments just to show whomever comes here to see how backward people like that think. May Allah guide us all.

      @Arab ‘Aribah – Please continue to share your comments. It’s a nice laugh. 😀 May Allah reward you for making me smile.

      Every person that I have met that thinks and talks like Arab ‘Aribah are either thugs, deadbeat bums or straight up live kufr lifestyles. I’m not saying that all their people are like this. They basically contradict themselves by not following their own rules. I’m saying every person that I have met who deny hadith are like this. May Allah guide them all.

      So Arab ‘Aribah continue to make me laugh. 😀 Plus you also give me more hits. Double 😀 :-D!

    17. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

      Ok Suyuufi first you thought i was a shia…then you thought i was a girl….you also accussed me of copying other peoples post ( NOT DENYING THAT I HAVE NOT USED SOME COLLEAGUES WORKS )and pretending it was mine despite me NAMING NAMES of the authors either at the beginning or end of MOST of them…now your saying that i am ‘anonymous’…..MR should be able to tell if i am using two nameskes by the IP Address……but i don’t need to do that ….what for?…….trust me Suyuufi you are no competition……i could take on 10 of you at the same time…….no problem…bring it on…as someone like MR would say…..and yet you still have not refuted anything i have said.

      Greetings MR…with language like that and from some of the posts i see here i can tell you’re one of those Young Hip Hop Muslims…you know a muslim whose ‘down’…..but thats cool….i don’t think Music is haram either although i don’t have time for any of that Hip Hop Busta Rhymes BS who seem to impress you because they say they are muslims……..i’m glad that you appreciate my presence here…but i’m not going to be around for much longer….i think i’ve made my point….and even if just one person gets to see the light…thats good enough for me……so keep on reading…as matter of fact i’ve got a real juicy article coming up soon

    18. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

      Suyuufi i’m not attacking ahl al sunna…whatever gave you that idea?
      It is some of the teachings of ahl alsunna which are ATTACKING ISLAM that is the problem….there are many agreeable teachings from certain segments of ahl al sunna jsut as there are with ahl al bait followers…but it’s the blatant descrepancies and very devient beliefs which need to be highlighted, exposed and refuted….i have nothing personla agianst you….man i don’t even know you…and wakllahi i wish only good for you but this is a dialogue that needs to be had…it is taking place all over the world amongst Muslims…and ahl al sunnites do not like it…so the best thing they do is make violent threats…then make a fatwa…then accuse some one of being a murtad…and we all know what comes next….if what ahl al sunna is propagating is so true then why do they always kill those who disgree with them?…why not follow the Quranic verse of To You Be Your Way and To Me be mine……but nooooooo you have hadith which encouarges the murder of those who disbelieve in your teachings despite the Quranic verses on no compulsion and freedom of belief

    19. Anonymous May 28th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

      MR im not joking with you. ive read all the posts here, and arab arabiyah has totally shutted up al suyuuti. i havent seen al suyuuti or anyone for that matter respond to many ahadeeth arab arabiyah showed. so its very obvious that mr suyuuti has no response to them at all

      LMAO @ “6. I will not leave your falsehoods unrefuted”

      then why dont u mister, start responding to arab arabiyah’s posts on the hadeeth issues? o.O

    20. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

      anonymous….now Suyuufi is calling for the whole thing to be deleted!!!!…wow…now what does that tell you about his attitude to oppositional viewpoints….this is why most muslim countries are run by dictatorships who silence the opposition….i can’t even say i feel sorry for him because in realty…i don’t…each to their own

    21. MR May 28th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

      @Anonymous and @Arab ‘Aribah and all those who reject Muhammad (saas) – 16:44

      And Allah knows best.

      😀

      PS – Read the Qur’an ! It’s easy and clear!

      PPS – Rashad Khalifa is not the messenger of God. Muhammad (saas) is the last and final messenger of God. 😀 Please read the Qur’an. It’s not that difficult to read. Even the English does a pretty good job of explaining this.

      @al-suyyufi – there falsehood is easy to spot here. Even a 10-year old knows better. Seriosly you’ll never find young children denying hadith. It’s a phase that I know many people go through. InshaAllah I pray for Arab ‘Aribah and Anonmyous to be guided.

      You know what else is funny. They reject the Prophet (saas), the sahabas, the tabieen, the tab tabieen, and pretty much 1000s of scholarship and they only accept their own people from the 1900s. So it’s basically Qur’an and their scholars. Pretty dumb and sad.

      Ameen.

    22. Arab ‘Aribah May 28th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

      Why Is It ‘Sunna’ To Pray In Silence??????

      The verse quoted below Commands that we should recite or speak out our daily prayers, neither in a loud tone nor in the low tone but in the MIDDLE TONE……this is an explicit, unambiguous Command and that leaves NO ROOM for reciting any of our Daily Prayers SILENTLY.

      To do so, after knowing this explicit text, amounts to deliberate defiance or disobedience of the Allah’s Command.

      وَلاَ تَجْهَرْ بِصَلاَتِكَ وَلاَ تُخَافِتْ بِهَا وَابْتَغِ بَيْنَ ذَلِكَ سَبِيلاً
      And neither speak thy Prayer aloud nor speak it in a low tone but seek a middle course between. Sura Al-Israa (17) verse 110 Translation by Yusuf Ali

      Some time back I asked a learned Muslim friend, who often leads the prayers at private gatherings; Why he was not reciting the Zohr and ‘Asr prayers in the audible tone like the Maghrib and ‘Isha prayers?……..the response I got back was that we Sunni Muslims are supposed to follow the Sunna (the legal way or ways) of the Prophet (s.a.s.) and the Prophet used to recite these two prayers silently.

      If that was the reality for a Muslim, then the next question that needs to be addressed is……. Can the Sunnat-ur-Rasool (Prophet’s Law) take precedence over the Sunnat’ullah (Allah’s Law)?

      Besides, how can a believer in Allah’s Word reconcile the verse number 6: 50 that reads: “Say, [O’ Muhammad]… I but follow what is revealed to me.” And, the verse number 10: 64 that reveals: “No change can there be in the Words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme Felicity.”

      As for NOT following the Revealed Verses and instead following the ways of our forefathers, scholars and saints please read:

      “When they are told to follow the (revelation) that Allah has sent down they say: “Nay we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following).” What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of Fire! Qur’an 31: 21.

      So can anyone expalin why the zohr and Asr prayers are done in absolute silence or at best whispering?….bear in mind that ‘whispering’ is one of the communication methods of the Jinn or Evil people

      [114:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

      [114:1] Say, “I seek refuge in the Lord of the people.

      [114:2] “The King of the people.

      [114:3] “The god of the people.

      [114:4] “From the evils of sneaky whisperers.

      [114:5] “Who whisper into the chests of the people.

      [114:6] “Be they of the jinns, or the people.”

    23. Green Child May 28th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

      @ Arab Arrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebah (ever watch speedy gonzales?)

      Anyways, you have a right to your opinion. You have many proofs and evidences, and the truth is, if you’re expecting a real refutation of them on some blog where the average reader is between i’d say 12 and 30 years of age (and I’m completely guessing here) then I think you came to the wrong place.

      I see that you are sincere in finding answers from what you have previously said:

      “i’m not attacking ahl al sunna…whatever gave you that idea?
      It is some of the teachings of ahl alsunna which are ATTACKING ISLAM that is the problem….there are many agreeable teachings from certain segments of ahl al sunna jsut as there are with ahl al bait followers”

      If you sincerely want to understand and clarify the issues you brought up with hadith then go to the scholars of hadith and ask them. They have a much better understanding of hadith then the laymen you will find on this blog. It’s important to consider that the compilation of Hadith were written by scholars for scholars, and not just for the layman – and it is why people run into a lot of confusion when just quoting hadith, because even hadith have a context, and the scholars of hadith know and can explain that context in the best way. Just as how non-muslims will sometimes quote verses of the quran out of context to make it seem that Islam supports oppression and murder.

      You can ask any Muslims scholar on any website like islamtoday.com for example about any questions regarding hadith, although I do advise you do so with good manners. Otherwise there is no point in posting more and more arguments here because no one can answer them for you – this is a Muslim blog, not a Scholar blog.

      If you want to continue posting a library of copied articles, you can do that also, although it may be better manners to just leave a link, as to not pollute the forum.

      Inshallah you’ll find the answers you’re looking for if you keep an open mind, and ask the questions to people who can actually answer them. The simple reason many cannot answer the multitude of questions and issues you posed is because most Muslims have accepted the authentic ahadith in their entirety because of the verse:

      “4: 59- O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.”

      You can interpret it the way you want to, but most Muslims interpret this verse in a way that obliges them to both the Quran and hadith. The vast majority of Muslims have accepted all hadith without ever having read all of them because they have faith in them, just like how the vast majority of Muslims accept the whole quran without ever reading all of its chapters.

      May Allah SWT guide us all.

      Assalamualaykum Wah rahmatullahi Wah Baraktuh.

    24. Green Child May 28th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

      “You can interpret it the way you want to, but most Muslims interpret this verse in a way that obliges them to both the Quran and hadith. The vast majority of Muslims have accepted all hadith without ever having read all of them because they have faith in them, just like how the vast majority of Muslims accept the whole quran without ever reading all of its chapters.”

      I wanted to add, that in effect, they accepted all of the ahadith without ever having to read them all, and ever having to defend them, much the way muslims who have never read the whole quran accept it, and never have to defend any of its verses.

    25. Arab ‘Aribah May 29th, 2009 at 9:45 am

      Rejecting nonsensical, fabricated or contradictory Hadith does not equate to rejecting Prophet Muhammad….you are using ahl al sunna presumtious mentality to respond to ahl al sunna criticism!….where have i rejected the Prophet Muhammad anywhere throughout this thread?…can you please show me!……how can i reject Muhammad when i am using verses from the Quran knowing fully well that he was the one who delivered it’s message!….your logic is ridiculous to say the least….but i put it down to lack of reasoning, ignorance or maybe brainwashing….trust me i’ve been there before….i mean look at what you are advising…here you see me heavily criticising the so–called sunna and Hadiths because of their idiocy, contradiction of the Quran and insults to the Prophet…yes thats right many Hadiths insult the Prophet making him look like an ignorant, sex crazed, intolerant, chauvinistic barbarian….one does not need to study anything it’s there in black and white in both Arabic and English….and yet you want me to go and ask a ‘scholar’ to explain it to me?

      Bukhari (7.030) narrated Abdullah bin Umar:
      Allah’s Apostle said, “Evil omen is in the woman, the house and the horse.”

      Bukhari (ref: 1.298); narrated Aisha:
      The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were junub [the unclean state after sexual intercourse]. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in itikaf (see note below) he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in periods (menses).

      Bukhari (Ref: 1.299) Narrated Abdur Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
      Aisha said: “Whenever Allah’s Messenger wanted to fondle anyone during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an izar and start fondling her.” Aisha added “None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet.”

      Bukhari (ref: 7.590), narrated Anas:
      The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to proceed along with his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as medicine). So they proceeded along with the shepherd i.e. the camels, and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet (pbuh) he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.

      Bukhari (Ref: 9.130) Narrated Anas bin Malik:
      Allah’s Messenger used to visit Um Haram bint Milhan and she was the wife of Ubada bin As-Samit. One day the Prophet visited her and she provided him with food and started looking for lice in his head. Then Allah’s Messenger slept and afterwards woke up smiling[…]

      Saheeh Bukhari 97/24
      “On the Day of Judgement, Allah will open His leg and show his thigh to the Prophet.”

      Saheeh Bukhari 10/129
      “Allah will show His leg to the believers and they will fall prostrate.”

      It is difficult to imagine anyone capable of such rank treachery and stupidity that depicted in the first two hadiths – let alone ascribe such a chauvenist nature to our Prophet! It is difficult, also, to imagine a situation where someone else’s wife would be looking for lice on the Prophet’s head and if his supposed regular trips to see her, particularly as the Quran enjoins believing men and women to lower their gaze and be modest, an injunction which would seem to preclude such a suggestive intimacy…… Being purely objective, academic, and looking at the facts, do you still think that al-Bukhari is a reliable source for hadith?

      And as for you Mister Green what has Rashad Khalifa got to do with this?…i am aware of him and i agree and disagree with his teachings……Rashad Khalifa rejected Hadiths yes that’s true but did I tell you that I am following him?…..i have made it clear that I belong to no sect….follow no imam….no madhab….no ahl this…jamaa that….none of these labels are what Allah has asked us to be MUSLIMS….but you just have to label people don’t you….you just can’t help yourself….there have been criticism of Ahadiths from as early as the Abbassid era…so it is not something new….there are Quran only scholars all over the world….there always has been….just because you have not of heard from them does not mean that they are/were not there…now I’m giving you that opportunity to thibk for yuourself instaed of running off to some bearded old man in the masjid……i’ve been there before….nothing new.

      Obviously what you bring to the Quran is what it gives back to you. So i am not disputing your personal interpretation of the Quran as your individual choice and its validity for you right now, as you seem sincere enough…….my argument is only intended in the spirit of debate …… your way of interpreting hadith is based on medieval ideologies and thought patterns that go against the very nature of revealed religions…..they go against logic, reason and common sense…..in a khutba last Friday the Imam said it was haram for women to watch Football because they could see the men’s knees!!!!

      Can you imagine that type of logic in the year 2009…as if women get turned on by seeing mens knees…that brother was backward…those are the kind of people we have as religious leaders….people like that are running whole countries….no wonder most muslim countries are in a stae of confusion as well as being poor and backward….when Islam was at the heights of it’s splendour…during the Abbassid era…during the Moorish Spain era…they were SECULAR societies…that’s why they were so progressive…they studied the sciences, the Arts, Medicine, Archaelogy, Theology…this is the Quranic definition of the word ‘ulemaa’…….they achieved thia succes without compromising their faith……unlike todays ulema they were not sitting around with pot bellies and long beards questioning whether it is halal or haram to urinate standing up or if it was ok to celebrate ones birthday or if Pepsi Cola was a drink made to oppress muslims…….that type of mentality will never build any great progressive Muslim society…they will always be stagnant deeply believing that their austere existence will bring them closer to Allah….it’s quite pathetic really

    26. Anonymous May 29th, 2009 at 10:05 am

      @ MR

      I don’t follow Rashad Khalipha. I don’t know where you got that view from. Yes many “submitters”, a.k.a “Qu’ranists” may follow him, but I don’t, and please refrain from jumping into conclusions.

      I was a Sunni, and I left AhlulSunnahWalJama’ah, due to the many Ahadeeth, that no one can seem to explain, rather attempt to delete the thread which contains them! They are very embarrassing, lame, and moronic. I know Sunni’s become very ashamed when they have to see them, and the fact they are authentic. In fact most Sunni’s are not aware of their existence, and when showed, they begin to doubt their faith, and finally leave. Many blindly believe they are un-authentic because they can’t believe how retarded they are, but when shown that’s not the case, they leave this belief immediately! I have many friends, and their are many people, who have left the Sunnism. Many Ahadeeth make the Prophet look like a stupid person.

      They demean his character. Do you know most Atheist, Christian, and Jewish sites that attack Islam, use those pathetic Ahadeeth to attack Islam as a whole? Show what type of person the Prophet was? Using all those gross and disgusting Ahadeeth!

      I pray that you can open your eyes, and see the disgust in what is in those books of so called “sahih” Bukhari, Muslim, and the other filthy texts.

      Really thank you Arabiyah. It was people like you who showed me the truth about Sunnism that made me leave. I was not aware of how utterly disgusting it really is. I hope the best for you. May your knowledge be increased, and please carry own silencing the barking dogs! 😀

    27. MR May 29th, 2009 at 11:17 am

      @Arab ‘Aribah and Anonymous – All your comments, criticism, so called refutations mean nothing to me. The fact that you are a random Muslim blog on a thread where the original post was about the war in Iraq discussing the validity of Hadith in Islam is ridiculous.

      Instead of asking laymen who don’t have any years of studying in an Islamic university or school under any major shaykh you should go and meet with some scholars of Ahlul Sunna.

      There is a huge conference coming up in DC July 4th weekend. Attend that if you are near it – The ISNA Convention. If your in Canada, there is also a huge conference in Toronto that same weekend – The Journey of Faith Convention.

      If you sincerely go up to the scholars and ask them to explain the validity of the hadith.

      Do you reject all the hadith? If so you are rejecting the Prophet (saas), because the hadith are the sayings and actions of the Prophet (saas). The Qur’an is the word of God. It is God’s message to humanity. The Prophet (saas) simply recited it for the people to listen. So obeying the Qur’an is obeying Allah. What about the Prophet (saas)? Didn’t Allah tell us to follow the Prophet (saas)? When you go to Hajj, what do you do? Do you follow the people? If so, then you are following the hadith. What do you do when you fast in Ramadan? How do you fast? If so you are following the Hadith. How do you even pray? Do you even pray 5 times a day?

      Are your parents, children, uncles, aunts, cousins all reject the Hadith like you? Are you willing to say that they are deviant because they follow the hadith?

      Arab ‘Aribah How old are you? Seriously. I’m 24 years old. Married. Working full time. Your turn. Tell me about yourself. Why I’m I asking this? Because every Hadith rejector I know is under the age of 30. Once they get older or get married and start a family the come back to Ahlul Sunnah. Same thing with Hizb ut Tahrir, or Extreme Jihadi movements. It’s always the youth that are zealous in their own groups way, but when they get older and settle down, they all come back to true moderate Islam.

      You said all the anti-Islam sites quote hadith and not Quran. Have you ever watched FOX News or listen to Robert Spencer or Irshad Manji or any popular Islam hater. They almost always quote the Qur’an. Rarely quote hadith. Just YouTube and you will see.

      You said you don’t follow Rashad Khalifa. But you sound just like him and his followers. And they think he was a Messenger of God. The fact that you spit out his garbage and then deny him as your leader or shaykh or teacher is pretty sad. Who is your teacher then? Who is your scholar that INTERPRETS the Quran for you? I guess HIS hadith is worth more than the hadith of the Prophet (saas). Your teacher’s ways are better than the Prophet’s (saas) way? May Allah forgive you

      This is not the best place to continue to discuss this. I advise everyone to go join this forum and continue it there:
      http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f20/refuting-hadeeth-rejecters-5656/

      I know I said to continue, but it’s getting a little out of hand. It was funny at first, but the fact that you guys continue to reject the Prophet (saas), yes you are rejecting him (saas), is sad. The fact that you preach the same garbage from a man who claimed to be a Messenger of God is even more sad.

      Your cult only started a few decades ago. So all the Muslims from 1000 years back are all deviant for following Hadith? All the Muslim scientists, doctors, mathematicians, politicians, etc. who made great scientific discoveries which you use today thanks to them are deviant?

      Again, I ask you. Will you raise your children to reject the Prophet (saas)?

      Continue the discussing here:
      http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f20/refuting-hadeeth-rejecters-5656/

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