Reviving the Islamic Spirt – Best Convention?

I’m bias, but it’s def my favorite one.

72 Replies to “Reviving the Islamic Spirt – Best Convention?”

  1. Wow. This looks like those crazy christian evangelist conferences that we have here in the mid-west. Except it’s all Muslims in Toronto. Scary how we’re following them down the snake hole.

  2. @scooby – Hhmm, you have a point with the conferences idea, but I think we’ve been doing it for centuries. But there is one big difference. Muslims are cheap, Christians aren’t. We struggle to pay 2.5% but they drop up to 10%, especially the Mormons. That’s why they can send missionaries across the world.

  3. hahaha its like advertising deen like a product. hey if the means works it works right…looks like a good time, ive never been to it, but why do u like this better than isna? jw. salam

  4. Best convention? i donno about that.. you have to qualify this statement by indicating in which aspect(s) is it the best convention 🙂

    But at the end of the day… we aint tryin to be groupies of any “side”… i think we got over that long time ago .. lol

    I think RIS is a piece of the puzzle that makes up our community. I learned along time ago to take myself outta of my bubble to see the other side … and I appreciate RIS just as much as I appreciate ISNA, ICNA, TDC, JOF, MAS, MANA…etc….

    They cater to different segments… they offer different points and show the diversity of our community.

  5. May Allah protect this Ummah. Ya got the female handshaking “sheikh” hanging with his homie who calls people the “children of Allah.” How deep is this guy? Does he acknowledge the concept of deviance and kufr?!? When will the guy let the people know WHO IS RIGHT–WHO IS ON THE HAQQ? Why didn’t HY include the Ahmadiyyah, the Farrakhanis, and the 5%ers as people one should like–i know he already includes the Jews? Hey, he might as well throw in the Nuwabians and the Satanists. OBVIOUSLY, after becoming a Muslim, one should judge matters according to the Qur’an and Sunnah; hence you like or dislike someone for the sake of Allah. After becoming Muslim, you don’t judge matters the same way one would judge matters in a state of jaahiliyyah and kufr.

    That aside, it can’t be that the Shi`ah and the so-called Salafis (Wahhabis) can both be right. The Wahhabis openly make takfeer on the Shi`ah, and the Shi`ah (in this case rightfully) make takfeer on the Wahhabis (for their anthropomorphic doctrine). The Shi`ah deviated from Ahlus-Sunnah. They deem Abu Bakr, who is the best of the Companions, a traitor. They slander Umar. By Consensus of the scholars, ALL the Shi`ah are enormous sinners and deviants. The so-called “Salafis” (i.e., Wahhabis) pray to a giant imaginary smiling faced bipedal entity with a tibia, eyes, and fingers. They worship something other than Allah–ergo, they are mushriks/kuffaar. The GENUINE Sunnis CANNOT unite with people who curse Abu Bakr or claim Allah is a gigantic body sitting in person on or hovering above the `Arsh or living inside the First Heaven. All the more we can’t “unite” with such people when these “leaders” KNOW that MANY of the Muslims are confused on even some of the most elementary matters pertaining related to the `Aqidah and apostasy.

    The Ummah will remain weak and divided as long as we are:

    —Collectively ignorant of our Deen.

    —Too intellectually lazy and timid to ask the hard questions: such as, amidst all these different speakers and groups, who–if any–are on the Straight Path? It’s obvious that Wahhabis, apologists, modernists, Shi`ah, and GENUINE Sunnis cannot all be correct.

    —And too cowardly to stand up and speak the truth against these people who are maliciously exploiting the ignorance of the Muslim masses and misleading them.

    With Allah is the success.

  6. A muslim is someone who holds the same creed in which the Prophet sallallahu^alayhi wa sallam came with. Some of the speakers at that convention don’t hold this creed. I mean you have guys believing the Allah is literally above the arsh. Another guy saying “we are the children of Allah”. These people do not represent Islam. Rather thay are calling people to kufr. Hamza Yusuf is on record saying “murder is such a evil crime it interrupts the appointed death time.” Allah is the One who appoints the death times. So by that Hamza is saying the person who commits the murder overcomes the will of Allah. This is kufr without any dought. But still some people actually call that man a scholar. This shows how weak the people are in basic issues of the creed.

  7. A shia or salafi or w/e still claims to be a Muslim. Most people who grew up Muslim usually follow what their parents are. So what should we do when we come across one. Tell them to claim that their not a Muslim and then we’ll do dawah to you and be nice. Or should we treat them like the Prophet treated Abu Jahal and Abhu Lahab while he did Dawah to them.
    Everyone knows what these peoples mistakes are, but it’s what we do that is the important part.

  8. Hands down anyone who has ever attended RIS knows it’s really the best conference out there.

    The conference doesn’t just have your typical motivational speeches but the scholars actually have a chance to talk a specific topic that teaches to crowd. Everyone is in the same session at the same time, listening to one amazing speaker pass their knowledge on. You have that iman high leaving the conference, but you also can also go home and apply some of that knowledge onto your life.

    It’s truly an amazing experience.

  9. I went to RIS last year and it was aweseome! it did exactly what conference are supposed to to, get you all excited for a couple of days. In all reality conferences are not beneficial, they only raise your Iman for a few days and no real knowledge is gained. Saying this, I think RIS is the best convention because they are Sufis and always talk about the heart, and rarely talk about the other part of the deen.

    I truly suggest that if anyone listens to Hamza Yusuf or anyone associated to him that they verify everything they say or don’t listen. Of course we are supposed to verify everything from everyone, but in all reality it doesn’t happen. Hamza Yusuf and gang doe say some good things so lets take those and leave the bida’h and shirk. The weak Muslim should however not listen to him, otherwise he will be sucked into him because the weak Muslim is in such a mold able state.

  10. @Talib

    see the thing with comferences for people who have been studying they are like why am I here listening to these things that are old to me. However for nonpracticing brothers it’s different.

    For example Nouman Ali Khan the head of Al Bayyinah institute was listening to Siraj Wahaj speak once and he says that the speech was jumping all over the place from the Imam’s childhood to his car to w/e. And Nouman was like..I’m no tlearning anything new. But the brother next to him goes “dude I need to start praying.”

    (there is the nouman talk)

    And NO he isn’t a pseudo salafi or anything that swarth moor likes to accuse people of.

  11. OK lets say a guy is motivated by hearing Hamza Yusuf speak. Motivated to the point where he starts praying more. If this person hears Hamza Yusuf say “murder interrupts the appointed death time.” And then believes what Hamza Yusuf said is the truth he has left Islam whether he knows it or not. Because Allah is the One Who appoints these death times. Nothing interrupts the will of Allah. Believing something does is KUFR. Therefore his prayers are not valid. And if he dies without repenting for for this blasphemous belief he will be tortured forever.

    Just because some of these guys are not so called salafis( does not mean that they are straight. They are certainly not scholars. They are spreading misguidance to the people. They are belying the religion.

  12. salams

    I agree with haytam on the point that I go to many different events [including RIS]. They all have their good and bad, and I’m referring specifically to the nature of the venues, the organizational aspects, etc.

    As for those people here who are ranting and raving against Hamza Yusuf, or Zaid Shakir – people like you are ones who find it very easy to talk, and talk is cheap. Utterly cheap, more freely available than actual sand and dirt.

    None of you who are criticizing HY or ZS are at their level, so I’m not going to accept your concerns as being qualified, peer-to-peer criticisms. And I very strongly doubt any of you have actually bothered writing to either HY or ZS asking for written clarification of those comments. You’ve simply jumped on the face value of certain remarks and led your pre-fabricated conclusions drive your understanding and interpretation of those same remarks.

    And the same goes for those people who are jumping all over the Salafies for supposedly believing in an anthropomorphic diety. You just let your suspicions form pre-fabricated conclusions without proper due diligence and verification.

    Shame on you.

  13. @Idris82
    1st I was talking about the merits of a conference that Talib bought up.
    2nd the statement was about Siraj Wahaj’s speeches that to someone who is studying may or may not help but to someone who isn’t even practicing they will benifit greatly. Why you bring HY into it, I don’t know.

    3rd If the person is motovated to practice and start praying by HY (or anyone for that matter like a super salafi) speech then he will eventually inshAllah will start studying too. And then we will realzie the good the bad the good examples and the faults of every scholar and will inshAllah leave the bad and keep the good.
    However today we have this problem that we will teacha newly converted brother what an Ismaili is and not to go listen to Imam Shamsi Ali because he doesn’t have a beard (not realizing the dude is asian and CANT grow one) but didn’t bother to teach the brother how to properly fast and for the 1st three days of this ramadan the brother was fasting improperly and doing suhur AT fajr and he also didn’t knwo he HAD to go to Jummah and skipped out on it. BUt you ask him what an Ashari or Ismaili is he can answer you that.

    The BASICS of Islam can be learned from anyone (by basics i mean th eoutward practices.) inshAllah then the brother can go indepth and look at the differences and take the right and leave the wrong. But those who just point at peopel at tell you not to go to so and so for whatever reason are just making an excuse NOT to study. SUch as brothers who won’t go to Damascus university to learn Arabic and they’ve been rejected by the better Islamic universities because peopel dress inappropriately.

    People who speak ill of anyonme probaby don’t even study under their own scholars.

    P.S. I haven’t studied with Shaykh Hamza and haven’t listened to him since the late 90’s. So don’t even try to pull the card that I’m defending my teacher and to weak to point is wrong.

  14. Maverick,

    Let’s be honest here: you don’t need to be a Mujtahid Mutlaq to say that the one who says (on more than one occassion): “We are the children of Allah,” that he’s a deviant. Likewise someone who says that the one who does that which Allah has made permissible is a “pathological maniac,” or claims that one cannot deem a kaafir a “kaafir” because you don’t know what his future will be, or claims the Hurul-Ayn are “allegorical,” or that the kaafirs killed on 9/11 are “martyrs,” cannot be trusted to reliably convey the Religion. It’s as simple as that. Either they are ignorant of the Deen, or ignorant and utterly inarticulate in the language… or they are trying to mislead others. These characters have made ENORMOUS ERRORS in the matter of `Aqidah. They can’t be trusted.

    Regarding clarification–do i need to get “clarification” about a person who is suppose to be a “sheikh”–but he shakes hands with an ajnabiyy woman?!? Hamza Yusuf is clearly a straight-up equivocator. He’ll structure his ambiguous phrases in such a way to confuse the common people (to make them understand from what he says and to persuade them to follow his covert apologist/modernist/pluralist agenda), and when he’s called out by Ahlus-Sunnah, he will say, “Well, i meant it this way.” The guys articulate, so it’s not like the guy can’t express himself or the Islamic `Aqidah in clear unambiguous terms. The point is that he doesn’t want to, because he’s trying to hide his agenda.

    Another point, i know a Brother here who attended a lecture of HY, at the end, he sought clarification on an ambiguous statement HY made about the `Aqidah. He told, him: “Isn’t clearer just to say that Allah exists without being in location?” Very easy to say, and very easy to understand. Of course, HY didn’t give a straight answer–he probably didn’t want to lose the “Wahhabi-moderate” (or Wahhabi influenced) folks in his flock.

    And another point–regarding getting clarification from this equivocator. Again, on the side (there were two Egyptians present), a Brother approached HY and asked him what did he think of a particular sheikh (that the Brother followed). HY responded: “Well, he didn’t need to go into the matters of takfeer–afterall, every knows the Christians and Jews are kaafir.” (Keep in mind, this was years back–i don’t know if he would nowadays publicly call the Christians and Jews “kuffaar” and say that the mukallaf among them are condemned forever to Hell.) The two Egyptians look at HY and one says in incredulously: “What do you mean the Christians and Jews are kaafir?!?” HY, then quickly walks away. When your talking about 30,0000-40,000 people at $50 bucks a head–and tables being rented at 500-1,000 dollars a pop–plus requesting donations, you (he) ain’t interested in the Truth–he’s interested in the LOOT. It’s the loot and something more insidious. Check out Cheryl Benard’s, “Democratic Partners,” and see who fits the profile.

    Regarding the Wahhabis (so-called Salafis), i have their books right here–i’ve debated with them NUMEROUS TIMES, i’ve taken MANY LESSONS on them, their history, and their kufr `Aqidah. One cannot doubt they are mushabbihah “resemblers” (if one knows what they actually say). The Wahhabis claim (and this is kufr) that Allah is in a location, has a pair of feet, sits upon (or mounts) the `Arsh. The so-called “Salafis” claim Allah travels up and down at night time, has a real actual literal face, real actual literal fingers, and a real actual literal tibia. And if you try to correct them and explain that these Arabic terms (Wajh or Asaabi`, for example) have NUMEROUS meanings in the Arabic–some appropriate to ascribe to Allah and some not–they will turn around and say: “We have to take these terms at ‘face value’–and to do otherwise is to deny Allah’s [alleged] Attributes.” They’ll then say they ain’t into no “filasophee,” and go on to call you a Mu`tazilah or the likes.

    Allah created space, direction, and location. Allah was (before the creations) and space, direction, and location were not. The so-called Salafis deny Allah’s Tanzeeh (i.e., Absolute Transcendence (as in Free-of-Need, and not altitude) and Absolute Incomparabilty). Unlike Hamza Yusuf, the Wahhabis will clearly state their (dis)belief, attempt to defend it, and argue against those whom them deem to have “deviant” `aqidah. The Wahhabis say unambiguously that Allah is [most of the time] located above the `Arsh. Hence, they are claiming that Allah is some sort of spatial entity. Being in space entails corporealism (being a body). Claiming Allah is a body (or something like a body) entails resembling Allah to the created. This is kufr. Similarly, claiming Allah is in a location entails claiming Allah is dependent upon a space. This is kufr. Either way, you cut it, it is clear the beliefs of the Wahhabis (so-called Salafis) are straight-up blasphemy, and this was stated by the scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah centuries ago (although, you probably won’t hear HY say that).

    May Allah grant us the knowledge and protect this Ummah.

    With Allah is the success.

  15. SwathMoor:

    You need to calm down. Did the prophet not say that there will be more than 70 sects of islam?

    We cannot deny that there will always be differences. Some differences are respected such as the 4 four schools (Hanafi, Hanbali, and Shafi, Maliki).

    Then there are some more controversial differences like ‘Sufi’ and ‘Salafi’.

    Just learn to live with differences.

  16. I wonder if Swath Moor is Muslim?

    I’ll assume he is, but Swath Moor…realize you are confusing a LOT of people with your rhetoric and you’re causing more harm than good in your cynical and pointing-the-finger attitude.

    Get off this blog and focus on spreading the deen to Non Muslims or save our youth from the prom, drugs, and other vices. We have much bigger fish to fry.


  17. Swath Moor: You’re posts are complete rubbish. You seriously need to get your priorities straight as well as your facts. I didn’t know it was possible to include so many lies, misinformation and slanders in one post!

  18. Swarth Moor,

    You are full of garbage. Complete, utter, garbage. Like I said, talk is cheap, and your last post proved it to me beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    First off, to quote your own words as a direct example – you are using the now extremely old, outdated and tired “shuhadaa of 9/11” accusation against Hamza Yusuf. I strongly doubt you understand the arabiy language, because if you did, and you had heard directly what Shk. Hamza Yusuf said, then you wouldn’t have leveled such blatantly ignorant accusation against him, because what he said is completely true.

    Secondly if you had did as I suggested – written to these shyoukh about your concerns and received a reply – then you would have seen for yourself where you were wrong, and you would have been indicated on the finer intricacies of Arabiy.

    And while we’re at this, please explain clearly and unequivocally if you speak any of these languages as your mother tongue: Arabiy, Urdu, or Farsi. If you do not speak any of these languages, give me a clear “No, I do not speak any of those languages” answer.

    The same goes for the rest of your accusations. All straw-men accusation from one who doesn’t bother to do basic due diligence. All utterly cheap trash talk from an arrogant armchair general who holds himself above teachers who were learning this Deen while he himself was in diapers.

    The shyoukh have said that there are three doors of knowledge. When you walk through the first one, you think you know most of the stuff. When you walk through the second one, you realize you know very little, in fact. And when you walk through the third one, you realize you know next to nothing at all.


  19. @Ghazzali Blogger

    Praise be to Allah

    Your missing the whole point. If your ‘Aqidah is not straight then your fast won’t be valid anyway. The first thing you teach a person is matters of the belief. Because that is the difference between spending eternity in Paradise or Hell. Before you teach a brother about Fasting, Zakah, and other matters you teach him detailed matters of the belief. This is so he can protect himself from falling into blasphemy. In other words protect his Islam. The first requirement for the fast is to be muslim. Thats why you make sure one is straight on the ‘Aqidah before you go over the details of fasting. So the fact that he new the position of the Asharis on Aqidah is good for him. If he would have died during Ramadan without fasting properly but straight on ‘Aqidah he would have been among the winners in the hereafter. On the the other hand knowing the details of fasting without knowing the ‘Aqidah will not benefit you in the hereafter. Don’t get me wrong fasting is an important matter. But believing in Allah correctly is far more important.

  20. @Idris82
    When someone becomes a Muslim and says the Shahadah. Does he Say I believe in no God except Allah and murder doesn’t interrupts the appointed death time. And Muhammed is his Messanger. Or does he JUST say There is no God But Allah and Muhammed is his Messenger??

    If a brother just became Muslim from Christianity where he used to think God had a son. And no he believes in one Allah and His messenger and you want to teach him about Ismailis?? Before you teach him how to pray or the letters of the Arabic language so he can start to read the Quran. After All, Aqeedah does come from the Quran and Sunnah. Then when he starts reading Quran and Sunnah because he has learned Arabic he’ll realize Murder doesn’t interrupt the appointed death time.

    Furthermore traditionally the schools thought by their own evidences (from Quran and Sunnah.) They will NOT teach by accusing the other school of faults to validate themselves. Because that is what goes on today, most people who claim to follow a certain aqeedah school know MORE about the opposing schools than their own school.

  21. Idris82 – where the heck do you get such ideas dude? If your sources are the Qur’an and Sunnah, or even classical shyoukh, cough it up. Otherwise, a person is a Muslim once they say the shahaada.

    If you’re familiar with any sections of the Seerah where nabeyuna Muhammad [saws] himself OR the Sahabaa took such care to teach a new Muslim the finer nuances of aqaa’id al-Islam then great please share it with us. Otherwise as I recall, after Fateh Makkah, the Muslim army increased by 2,000 due to the large number of new Muslims and then three days after the conquest they immediately set out again. Many of them didn’t even learn how to pray properly in that time-frame but it didn’t matter; the all the relevant faraa’id were to be acted upon whether it was fasting, fighting, praying, whatever.

  22. @ MD

    Yes there would be different factions… AND ALL OF THEM WOULD BE DESERVING OF HELL, except for one. That is, Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jama`ah. The Malikis, Shafi`iyys, Hanbalis, and Hanafis are all considered Ahlus-Sunnah. Sufism is a legitimate branch of Islamic science–although there are many deviants who claim to be “sufis” but hold invalid/kufri creeds, such as, those who claim Allah is a light, or that Allah is literally everywhere, or that the pious literally “unite” with Allah, or that “mystics” of other religions are also on the Truth. The “Talafis” are NOT Sunnis because they don’t have the correct belief in Allah. They believe Allah is a bipedal smiling faced entity mounted somewhere above the universe. That belief is kufr.

    @ Usman, as they say in the hood: “You doan’t know me!” :0) Seriously, that’s what i do–i am involved in mentoring Muslim youth, conducting classes for new/non-Muslims, and otherwise involved in teaching and da`wah, maa-shaa’ Allah. May Allah grant me the knowledge, sincerity, and resolve to continue doing so. In addition to the above, as you can see, i am the kinda of guy (maa-shaa’ Allah) who calls out the deviants. That doesn’t make ya too popular, in these har parts.

    @Abdullah, no lies or disinfo. I’ve seen the videos where the characters are shaking hands with women, talking about being the children of Allah, claiming that murder interupts the predestined time of death, claiming the Hurul-`Ayn are allegorical, etc. Praise Allah, as of late, when i started my campaign, some folks have removed the videos from You Tube, and others have been selectively editted. That’s not a bad thing–but it seems they don’t want people calling them out.

    @Maverick, you are making an argument for HY’s equivocation (still doesn’t account for the hand shake, however). I KNOW that some of these words in English (or Arabic) have more than one meaning. The guy INTENTIONALLY uses ambiguous phrases for two reasons:

    1. One: he knows his audience. Many of his listeners are ignorant of the Deen and want to be accepted by mainstream America; they have accomodationist/apologist tendencies. They are shaky on matters of deeming the Christians/Jews kaafirs (who are condemned to Hell–FOREVER)–or other matters being promoted by the secularists.

    One of the qualities of a good speaker–especially when one is talking about the matters of `Aqidah–is to be as clear and as unambiguous as possible. He’s INTENTIONALLY ambiguous, because he’s trying to fool naive Muslims who have not learned their Deen properly. Honestly, Mav, why would a person refer to those (kaafirs) who died on 9/11 as “martyrs?” What is going to come to the minds of ignorant Muslims who are already infected with various apologist notions?

    I know that HY tried to explain his way out of what he said, and you know what… some people bought it. Just like when HY was asked about the Virgins of Paradise, it was said:

    Hamza Yusuf: “Now, there are some Hadeeths, it’s not in the Quran, there is mention of beautiful youths as well as beautiful women, and that’s more metonymy in rhetoric. [This itself is straight up factually inaccurate, both the Houris and the Wildaan Mukhalladun are mentioned in the Qur’an.]

    Michael Enright: It’s an allegory.

    Hamza Yusuf: Exactly, it’s an allegory, exactly.”

    I know, i know, Mav, HY tried to double talk his way out of his BLATANT belying of the Qur’an. What is there to say? It is clear–as day–that the guy is an apologist masquerading as a Sunni Muslim. When he gets enough followers (and cash), then he will turn his energies against genuine Sunnis and call them “extremists” for saying: “The only religion accepted by Allah is Islam.” That’s from Aal `Imraan, 19. Perhaps, HY will reject that Verse, just as his partner outright rejects at least one Qur’anic Verse.

    Two: He phrases things the way he does, so that if someone calls him out, he will claim that he didn’t mean the apparent meaning but another linguistically valid one (although he knows that most of his listeners would understand the literal apparent meaning). The guy ain’t dumb–and he’s articulate. He knows how to use the language. He knows that folks like you will come to his aid saying: “Don’t you know, he could’ve meant another meaning from the phrase?” Ya, that’s true, but why use an ambiguous phrase–one that he knows could lead others to kufr–amongst people who are very ignorant in the subject of the Creed and apostasy? Again, it points to another agenda.

    To answer your question–unequivocally–English is my native tongue. I’ve studied Arabic abroad and in the States, but i still need work. Nonetheless, that isn’t relevant to what was posted, for i am talking about the mistakes of HAMZA YUSUF that he made in the ENGLISH language. The guy has made CRITICAL mistakes in the `Aqidah in his NATIVE tongue. He’s not trustworthy. It’s as simple as that.

    With Allah is the success.

  23. @Blogger

    When a person says: “No one is God except Allah,” among its basic implications is that one believes Allah is the One and Only Creator; Allah knows everything, and everything occurs by Allah’s Will and Decree–and, obviously, that nothing can alter what Allah Decreed. This is confirmed by the saying of the Prophet:

    “If the entire creation endeavored to bestow upon you something that Allah did not will for you, then they will no be able to bestow it.”

    If a person believes that something alters Allah’s Qadar (Destining/Decree), then he is not a Muslim.

    Regarding what one teaches a new Muslim, that often depends on a person’s background. First, of course, you teach him the basics of the Belief in Allah:

    —Allah is One. Allah is Incomparable. Allah can’t be imagined. Allah has no beginning or end. Allah is not a body. Allah exists without a direction or location. Allah is Perfect and does not change. Allah is not subject to ageing or time. Allah knows everything and has power over everything; everything occurs by Allah’s Destining and Will. Allah is not attributed with organs or body parts; Allah is clear of ignorance, weakness, death, etc.

    Then the basic belief in the Prophets: The Prophets are all men of integrity, honor, intelligence, and courage. They convey all that which Allah ordered them to convey. The Prophets are clear of kufr, enormities, and minor sins that would indicate a baseness of character. Believing in Prophet Muhammad entails believing in all that he conveyed, whether it be the matters of the origination of the creation, the previous nations, the Sacred Law, and the futuristic events of this world and the Hereafter. I’d tell him the way we know that Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) is a Prophet is by the miracles he performed. And that we know those miracles did in deed occur by the manner some of them were witnessed and transmitted (i.e., by tawaatur).

    After that, i would teach him about apostasy and the various types of beliefs, or actions or sayings that would nullify one’s Islam. I would be especially keen to warn him about the kufri matters that he, in particular, might encounter. If he’s a guy in university, i’d probably warn him against certain kufri beliefs promulgated by the secularists, such as, atheism, moral relativism, fagophilia, evolution, etc. I’d give the person some basic proofs against the arguments of the Greek philosphers (if the new convert had a background in philosophy). If he’s a guy into black nationalism, i’d speak about the kufr of Farrakhanis, Nuwabians, 5%ers, and the likes. If the convert was a Christian, i’d give him some basic rational, historical, and Biblical proofs against Christianity. If the Brother came from a “New Agey” kind of background, i’d warn him against some of the misconceptions of the pseudo-sufis–and show him the inconsistencies in the doctrines of the Buddhist, Hindus, “paganists,” etc. I’d probably give him a little talk about the jinn. And for sure, because they are very active, i’d warn any new Muslim about the so-called Salafis (Wahhabis), and that they pray to an imaginary bipedal being with fingers, eyes, and a tibia that they think mounts the Ceiling of Paradise. Likewise, i’d warn a new Muslim about this quasi-traditionalist (apologist) movement gaining momentum in the West.

    I’d also warn him about other common types of kufr, such as, stepping upon or throwing the Qur’an or other religious books in the trash, assisting other to commit kufr, or saying blasphemous statements in jest or anger. I’d mention these matters because they might not immediately come to a new Muslim’s mind.

    After that, i’d give him a brief lesson on purification and prayer. I’d advise him to pray according to Imaam Malik (b/c the Malikis don’t consider the Tashahud an obligation–hence, making it easier for him until he learns it). The above can be covered (given the capacity of the person) in a little more than an hour in a private class. In the next session, i would discuss more the matters of the Creed to reinforce what he learned, and then go into more details about how to pray, and warn against some of the sins a new Muslim might commit in ignorance. After that, i’d start teaching from a traditional book on the Fardul-`Ayn (Personally Incumbent) Knowledge. Learning Arabic would actually be quite a ways down the road–especially, learning Arabic well enough for one to actually learn the details of the Creed. Let him understand the correct `Aqidah and the major dangers in the matters of disbelief in his native language first. Later, he can learn the proofs in Arabic.

    With Allah is the success.

  24. @ Maverick,

    The Companion, Jundub ibn `Abdullah said:

    “We were with the Prophet as youth, and we learned the matters of Imaan BEFORE we learned the Qur’an, then we learned the Qur’an, and it increased our Imaan.”

    At the time of the Prophet, there were not a lot of theological controversies. Afterall, most of the people who converted to Islam in Arabia had previously been worshipping idols. Dismantling the gross kufri doctrine of idolatry isn’t difficult.

    Things nowadays are different. Before converting to Islam, a person often goes on a quest investigating different types of philosophies, “mysticisms,” religions, and different sects of (what is deemed to be) Islam. He may have read the lies and slanders against Islam promulgated by the Orientalists, missionaries, secularists, etc. and is confused about who’s who–and who is right. This can be even more daunting in light of the info overload and misinformation on the Web. Of course, you immediately give Shahadah to the one who wants to become Muslim, but you do have to warn the person about deviance, so that he does not get confused and become misguided after embracing Islam.

    Once the matters of `Aqidah are well learned, it becomes rather easy to X-ray the deviant groups. The scholars of Doctrine long ago provided us with the arguments for Ahlus-Sunnah and the arguments against folks, like those who deny Allah exists, or those who deny Destiny, or those who claim Allah is in a direction or is a spatial entity, or claim a new Prophet will come in the future. When Muslims learn these proofs, this increases their confidence in this Deen and gives them the courage to stand up to defend Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jama`ah. This is all part of the Sunni intellectual heritage.

    With Allah is the success.

  25. Dude, stop blabbing, seriously.

    You screwed up royally. People who talk without doing their research first and instead let their emotions guide them are worthless in my eyes.

    I’ve read what Hamza Yusuf said in his first, original remarks that included the 9/11 shuhadaa statement and like I said, if you knew arabiy and you had listened or read those exact same words, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    You’re just a lame internet blowhard who jumps to conclusions about people who are way more learned than you. All the posturing and flailing in the world isn’t going to change history.


  26. Mav,

    I’m not being emotional. I am being straightforward. You are the one being emotional. You are allowing your emotional attachment to HY cloud your thinking. If you are suppose to be a sheikh, and you are articulate (almost eloquent) in the English language, and you know that many of your listeners are VERY WEAK in the matters of `Aqidah, you don’t intentionally make ambiguous statements that would reinforce apologist misconconceptions in the minds of your audience (especially, when you know they are already prone to have such much notions).

    I know Hamza, the woman handshaking “sheikh”, Yusuf tried to equivocate out of this kufri statement. You don’t call dead kaafirs “martyrs.” How could this come out of the mouth of someone who is suppose to be a “sheikh?!?” This was an intentionally misleading statement (and it was a mistake he made in ENGLISH–not Arabic). You can say it was a tragedy that they died–that they were murdered–but you don’t call them “martyrs.” Martyrs (Shuhadaa’) go to Paradise forever–kaafirs go to Hell forever. Big difference. I wonder if HY today would make that distinction in public clearly and unambiguously.

    Mav, the issue isn’t that the guy has made a single statement of kufr. A person may make a mistake in his `aqidah. He recognizes the mistake, and fixes himself by saying the Shahadah to return to Islam. If you taught people something wrong in the `Aqidah, you let them know, and advise them that if they believed in such kufr to also return to Islam. That’s what a sincere person does. HY has made MANY mistakes in the matters of `Aqidah–and he says a lot of borderline kind of statements that he encrypts escape hatches, so if you try to pin him down, he’ll try to slither out. He’s good–and i mean that in a bad way.

    Their goal (aside from clockin’ the faloos) is to promote a modernist/apologist agenda in the guise of Sunni Islam (see who fits Cheryl Benard’s profile). Their major threat were the hardline/hardcore Wahhabis, but they are fading away in the States (at least the Wahhabis had a notion of kufr and riddah). Other Wahhabis, such as, AlMaghrib have been co-opted. They have made it a policy that they will not warn the public about each other’s deviance–which shows these folks are not sincere. The Wahhabis going back to Muhammad ibn `Abdul-Wahhab considered the Ash`aris deviants and the Sufis kuffaar. The Ash`aris consider those who claim Allah has body parts, or exists in a location or direction kuffar. Obviously, if these two groups were “sincere,” they could not unite. If they were “sincere” to the methodologies they claim to follow, they’d have to deem each other disbelievers.

    Add to the mix that these QTAs have made it a policy NOT to go into the matters of kufr/takfeer. That’s in spite of all the numerous kufri misconceptions spread all over the society, whether it be by ignorant people calling themselves Muslim, the kufr promoted in the general media, university, or secularism–or organizations promoting works of the likes of a Muhammad Asad, for instance. There’s a minefield of disbelief and deviance out there–or on the Web. Holding on to one’s Islam is like holding on to a hot coal. In spite of that, these leaders are virtually silent on the topic of kufr/apostasy. To the contrary, when they do say something, they say things that are misleading and intentionally ambiguous. Afterall, you don’t need a 20 plus page document of obfuscation to hazily (mis)define what is kufr and who is a kaafir and what is the state of such a person in the Hereafter. These guys are playing demonic games–don’t sleep on them.

    With Allah is the success.

  27. @Swarth Moor – There is a difference of opinion on shaking hands with women.

    On a random note, you’ve basically said everyone is out of Islam including myself and everyone else who comments here except yourself. Are you a 1 man religion? Who are your teachers?

  28. Swarth, again I advise you to refrain from talking when you haven’t conducted your due diligence into the topic being discussed.

    Do you understand, and do you make, the critical distinction between the shari’ meaning of a word versus its [multiple] linguistic meanings?

    Yes or no.

  29. @Ghazzali & Maverick

    The so-called Nation of Islam say the Two Shahadahs. But the Believe Allah is a black man. Certainly they are not muslims.

    The Ahmadiyya say the Two Shahadahs. Then they claim Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a Prophet of Allah. Surely they are not muslims.

    If a christian leaves christianity and says the Two Shahadahs. But he believes that Allah is located in heaven. Then he is not a muslim even though he believes that he is. Don’t get me wrong here. I am not saying delay giving him/her Shahadah. And unless you hear or see kufr from him/her you judge them as a muslim. But the first thing you teach them is the matters of belief. You teach the people how to protect their Islam.

  30. @ SwathMoor:

    Firstly, Muhammad Asad created one of the best translations of the Holy Quran. Yes, some of his views were incorrect, but he was in general a pious Muslim who believed in mainstream Sunnism. Can you prove that Asad promoted secularism? There is no factual evidence to support that claim.

    Like Maverick and MR say, you need to first clam down and actually talk to some of these scholars. I have never met Hamza Y. , but his talks are inspirational and uses scripture to convey his ‘arguments’.

  31. @ Swath Moor

    Excuse my ignorance brother, but I was wondering if you would relay some of the primary resources/readings that discuss the issue of the Wahabis and how they anthropomorphize Allah (swt). You seem to bring it up quite often and I would like primary resources (not secondary) as to this matter. I’m a student of science and law so I like to go straight to the source and move from there making assumptions instead of hearing it repeated by someone over and over again without seeing documentation.

    And on a second note, please bring to me ONE Shaykh, Imam, muslim leader who has not made a mistake at one time or another.

    JazakAllahu Khairan

  32. @Idris82
    Brother you know very well what we mean when someone takes Shahada we mean into your main stream Islam. And when those 2 sects are taking the “shadaada” their told that it is Muhammed Elijah is their Prophet or Ahmediyyah is w/e.

    I’m talking about the convert who actually realzies the mistakes of the trinity and knows there is nothing liek Allah and he is ALL powerful and to ask him for everything. That brother doesn’t need to be taught all the devient sects. The personal example I keep giving is the brother who didn’t know how to fast but knew what an Isamili is and was taught not to pray behind shamsi ali because he has no beard (even though Shamsi ALi CANT grow one).

    The fact he knew what an Ismaili is (sevener shia) DOESN’T get you fast or prayer accepted. KNOWING to wake up BEFORE fajr is how you up the chances of your fast being accepted or praying the right way ups the chance our prayer gets accepted(I say chance because you can pray and fast the right way but it is up to Allah to accept our deeds and we should pray our intentions were pure). NOT knowing what an Ismaili is.

  33. I read through some of the comments and was alarmed. Feel good events are great and most people want to go to them but when the speakers present say dangerous things which in themselves run against the Quran and Sunnah–its not so great anymore. Believing something that goes against the Quran and Hadith removes one from Islam and bc so many people are ignorant these days (they dont bother to learn any true authentic Islamic knowledge) they might believe what the speaker says and leave Islam, all without them knowing. This coincides with the hadith of the prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, that the person may utter a word in which he thinks there is no harm, but really it will result in him falling into hellfire. sadaqa rasulullah!

  34. @ Mav,

    I year ya. I know there can differences between the Shari` meaning of a word and its original meaning in the language. The word “zakah” is a good example of that. However, that’s not my point. You have a person who INTENTIONALLY uses ambiguous words to make the mass of ignorant Muslims think he means some sort of apologist/accomadationist meaning–which meaning such people would not have a problem with. It’s obvious he’s using such wording because he has political ambitions and doesn’t want to get exposed some time in the future.

    I’ll give you another example from HY from an interview with Terry Gross on NPR. HY says: “There’s nothing anti-Jewish in the Qur’an.” (In a more recent speech, he said: “The Prophet honored the Jews.”) Now why would someone say this (while knowing the truth of the matter)? He is an apologist–who belies the Qur’an. Now, of course, if you call him out, he would string together a couple of stories from the life of the Prophet, wherein, the Prophet treated (some) of the Jews kindly (like the case of the dying youth who said shahadah on his death bed), to give the impression that the Prophet “honored the Jews.” Somehow… just somehow… HY would leave out the Verses that discuss the nature of the Jews, their hostility towards the Prophets, the Hadiths about the Jews hiding behind the rocks and trees, and of course… he’d fail to mention that ALL THE JEWS are condemned to Hell for not believing in Prophet Muhammad.

    So, one you have the equivocation. But it would be possible that a person weak in the language or not good at public speaking might UNintentionally use ambiguous language. However, by the other statements that he makes, it would clarify the person’s ambiguities. The more you examine what HY says, it is CLEAR he is trying to subtly spread an apologist agenda. Will the man clearly and unambiguously say that Pope John Paul II, Martin Lutuer King, and the so-called “Mother” Teresa are condemned to Hell (forever) for their kufr–or will he try to dance around the issue? Does he ever warn–by name–that the so-called Salafis (Wahhabis) teach a doctrine of kufr so be warned of their blasphemies? His objective is not to shed clarity on the issues of `aqidah but to obfuscate. In-sha’ Allah, in the future, you will be grateful that some people were warning you against this person and his agenda.

    With Allah is the success.

  35. MR,

    I remember seeing someone a while back say the same thing (when the Wahhabi, Yassir Qadhi, was said to give skin to Mona At-Tahawi). I am curious as to who said and what they used as daleel. I ask that with all sincerity.

    I’d only say a person is a kaafir if they commited kufr. If a person:

    —denies Allah’s Attributes that are known to be of His Attributes by necessity (such as, Oneness, Eternality, Absolute Incomparbility, Omnipotence, Transcendence from Need, Omniscience, Will, etc.)

    —resembles Allah to the creations (such as, claiming Allah is a man, a light, a body (or has body parts), literally in all places or in one particular place, changes, etc.)

    —belies what is commonly known to be a part of the Deen (such as, believing Islam is the only true Religion, or denies the 5 prayers, Hajj, the institution of polygyny, the prohibition of fornication, alcohol, sodomy, etc.)–keep in mind that doing a sin is not kufr, but deeming the sin halaal is kufr, for it entails belying the Religion

    …then the person isn’t a Muslim. (Also, if a person mocks the Sunnah, helps others to commit kufr, prostrates to an idol, fire, or throws the Qur’an in the trash, or the likes, then he has commited kufr.) That’s not merely my opinion, that’s what the scholars of Doctrine said, such as, Imam An-Nawawi in his Rawdah.

    A LOT–and i mean A LOT–of Muslims have not learned the chapter of apostasy. And now the leadership is discouraging them from even be aware of this entire aspect of the Deen. As a result, many Muslims easily fall into kufr without knowing it. Once a person learns about the matters of apostasy, he sees the world from a totally different perspective. (Kinda like having those glasses in the flick “They Live.”)

    Regarding my teachers–and for the record, i ain’t a page flipper, or a student of “Sheikh Googliyy”–we’ll get there. First, let us establish that what i am saying isn’t wrong.

  36. Swarth,

    As besyt I understand, the main points of disagreement between you and I is as follows:

    1.) You’re unfamiliar with the Arabiy language, and thus you’re in a weak position to understand what the person was saying. It took THIS long in this discussion so far to even get you to give any hint of acknowledgment of the fact that one word can have legal, linguistic, and cultural differences based on context. And that’s only when I asked you – otherwise I would have presumed you didn’t know. If you actually go back and read HY’s comments about the firefighters of 9/11, he makes no equivocation about the fact that he’s applying the terms used in a linguistic vein, and not shari’.

    2.) You continue to speak of one’s intentions as if you knew what they were with certainty, yet you’ve given no evidence as to how you arrived so conclusively at what Shk. Hamza Yusuf’s intentions were at that time, or are even now. You’re not a mind reader, and I don’t think you actually have anything in writing from him that details what his intentions were.

    3.) You’ve not produced any written chain of discussion between you and any of these shyoukh you cast doubt upon, such a chain that would give further support to your stance.

    These three points are what lead me to have the opinion that you’re letting your own premature conclusions drive the discussion, rather than let a verified, fact-based discussion lead us to a mutually acceptable conclusion.

    Thus, I can’t take you as seriously as you would like me to.

    (And by the way, just to temper your last statement about me being grateful in the future about people [such as you?] warning against people like Hamza Yusuf …. please be advised I have been around much more than you. If you haven’t been to Yemen where Dar-ut-Tareem is, and met or talked to people who’ve been there, then your criticisms of Hamya Yusuf are even more suspect. I’ll be 30 next year, and I’ve been on both sides of the fence plenty of times over the past 14 years because I too, used to speak based on suspicions and unverified information. All of what you’re telling me is really quite old, I assure you. I just wanted to see if you’re any different from the rest of the vast hordes who find it very easy to point fingers.)

  37. @Swarth
    The quran has no anti-jewish verses. If you think the ayats speaking about the jews are anti-jewish then you a) misinterpreting Ayats and B) you don’t knwo arabic because even with a 300 lvl college level Arabic a non-Muslim can see it is NOT anti-jewish.
    This belief of the Quran being anti-jewish was spread by certain groups (who I do not wish to name because I do not want to be associated with them but their logo is the criss crossing black and white flags) who prey on over passionate youths and get the youths to do dumb things such as try to attack jewish houses of worship in the Bronx.

    proof: 1) look at the way the Quran calls to the Jewish people. Read the arabic not the translations.
    2) yes the Quran talsk about how the jews compromised their religion and gave Musa (pbuh) a hard tiem and all the bad things they did that is too long to list. And it says that they will take the side of the Dajjal. However WHERE does it say TODAY we should go and attack them and kill them for the plain reason that they are jews? Rather we should do dawah and live peacefully liek we did in the Khaliphate of Umar ibn Al Khattab AND get them to become our brothers (do dawah). Yes when the Dajjal comes or when there is a State v. State warfare (in State v State warfare it doesnt matter if they jews or anything else so that point is moot) then it is a different story. However where does it justify people in the bronx trying to blow up a jewish house of worship?

    Furthermore under the Khaliphate of Umar ibn Al Khattub to the Khaliphate of Andalusia Jews were honored and respected. Dhimmis CONTRARY to popular belief did NOT mean they were 2nd class citizens. Fo rmore on how non-Muslism were treated udner Islamic governments and what dhimmi REALLY means (a one word translation cannot do it justice) read The rights of Non-Muslims in the Islamic World by Saleh Hussain Al-Aayed. (And that book came out before 2001 to my knowledge and didn’t sell well because in those days people were full of blind passion. So the argument he writing the book for money doesn’t hold)

  38. Someone said “Why would you teach a new muslims about all the deviant groups” So I ask, why would you send a new soldier onto the battle field and NOT tell them who their enemy is? That would be maddness. And a sure fire way to lose your army. When you get a new soldier, you teach them several things:

    1. You tell them what they are defending, that is, the creed of Ahul Sunnah wal Jummah.

    2. You teach them how to fight, that is, you teach them the matters of apostacy. So that they can distinguish Iman from Kufr.

    And 3. You teach them who the enemies are. So that they will know who is who and what is what, and with this, they can defend Islam better.

    Muslims are soldiers who fight every day to support and defend the the religion that Allah, who is not obligated to do anything, has guided them to.

    Allahu Akbar, this world is our enemy, it and its people will try to destroy you at every turn. Iblees’s army is vast, and they excel in what they do. And having said all that, this cuthroat HY and his minion Shakir, have made on numerous accounts, statements of kufr. Blatant kufr. Rasululah Sallahu alayhi wa Salam said a statement which meant that a person would utter a word they deem harmless, and it would result in them falling the depths of 70 years into hellfire. [A place only Kufar, who burn in hell forever, go to] He Sallahu Alayhi wa Salam, did not say “a word they know is wrong”. He said a word, single word, that the person would think and believe it utterly harmless, but it would still make them kafir. You do not have to be aware of kufr when you say it, in order to be accountable for it. So wether Shakir of HY know what they said is wrong or not, is irrelevent, they said the statements, and they will be given the punishment Allah willed for them. Allah has mentioned numerous times in the Quran that a persons fame and wealth will not save them from hellfire. Because multitudes of people love these guys, because they think these clowns are ‘scholars’ aothobilah, doesn’t save them [these two guys] if they make kufr statements.

  39. @ Ghazali Blogger

    The Prophet Muhammad Sallahu Alayhi wa Salam, was murdered by Jews. That should be enough evidence that they are not our friends.

    And beyond that, anyone who rejects Prophet Muhammad [by not accepting him] is an enemy to the Prophet, and enemy to Muslims, and aothobilah they are enemies of Allah.

  40. Yea teach a guy to make takfir on people he doesn’t even know (and he wouldn’t know if you just bring him to your own scholars) but don’t teach him how to pray or fast properly.

    This si the way I do it. Bring him to my teachers, he learns from my teacher what is the aqeedah by actually reading and listening to what the Aqeedah is. For example Hanbali (athari) Aqeedah my teacher tells you what it says. However NOWADAYS (liek you peopel are doing) instead of teaching what is the right aqeedah your pointing fingers and telling them who is WRONG.

    There is a difference between teaching the proper aqeedah and teaching the wrong aqeedah to authenticate yourself as the right aqeedah.

    For example I will teach a non-Muslim that Allah is not a man. I would NOT teach him what the NOI and the Ismailis say. WHen he learns Allah is not a man and then coems across the NOI and Ismailis he will remember what he was thought and be like, “I don’t know you people but you’re wrong”

  41. @ Sara

    I appreciate your request. Let’s start by saying that the Wahhabis do NOT say Allah is a man. They will (unequivocally) say that such a belief is outright kufr (good for them). What the Wahhabis do, however, is whether knowinginly or unknowingly ascribe to Allah human-like attributes, and as At-Tahawi says:

    “Whoever ascribes to Allah a human characteristic blasphemes.”

    Furthermore, At-Tahawi said:

    “Allah is supremely glorified from having boundaries, extremities, sides, organs, appendages, and devices. NONE of the six directions contain Allah, as is the case with all created things.”

    Now, even if the Wahhabis say that Allah has various limbs, organs, appendages but… they are “not like our’s,” it is enough that they say Allah is a spatial entity in one location or another (usually they’ll say on or above the `Arsh or in the First Heaven) that renders them among the Mushabbihah–that is, those disbelievers who resemble Allah to the creations. Allah was before the existence of space and place. Allah does not change or need the creations; Allah exists without being in space or place. This is the belief of the Muslims. Now on to sayings absurdities of the Wahhabis.

    In the book called The Muslim’s Belief (from Uthaimeen) it says on page 13 (and these are blasphemous statements):

    “We believe that Allah has a glorious and dignified face.”

    “We believe that Allah has two generous hands…. The whole earth will be his handful [which implies that His (alleged) hand is relatively small] on the Day of resurrection.”

    “We believe that Allah possesses two real eyes.”

    On page 11, the book says:

    “…He [allegedly Allah] settled Himself on the Throne. His ‘settling on the Throne’ means that HE IS SITTING IN PERSON on His Throne.”

    In the translation of the so-called Sharhul-Aqeedat-il-Wasitiyah from Dar-us-Salam, it says in the chapter (wrongly) entitled: “Affirmation of the Face, the Eyes, and the Hand for Allah” (p. 76):

    “Everything will perish save His [allegedly Allah’s] Face.”

    This distortion of Al-Qasas, 88 runs absolutely contrary to the explanation given by Al-Bukhari in his section on Tafseer wherein, he said that Wajh (what the Wahhabis claim is “Face”) means the Allah’s Dominion. If the verse were taken at its “face value,” it would mean that Allah’s alleged feet, fingers, tibia, hands, and eyes would all be annihilated–and only the face would remain.

    In the chapter entitled, “Affirmation for the Foot and Step [to Allah],” it says on page 135:

    “Thus, Allah the Lord of Might will put His Foot in it [i.e., Hellfire]….”

    Again, another literalist Wahhabi distortion. Although i don’t see the source now, i know that the Wahhabis say that Allah [allegedly] places both of His Feet on the Kursiyy. Given that the Kursiyy’s size to the `Arsh (where Allah is allegedly located according to the Wahhabis) is like a drop of water in comparison to a lake, you can see the absurdities that their claim leads to.

    In the Wahhabi distortions of the Qur’an by Muhsin Khan or the “Sahih” International, they both claim that the phrase in Al-Qalam, 42:

    “yukshafu `an saaq”

    means that Allah has a “Shin,” and that on the Judgment Day, it will be exposed. The phrase “showing of the shin” has a meaning in Arabic akin (although not exactly) of “rolling up your sleeves” in English–the Arabic phrase means: “a time of hardship”–and even Hans Wehr confirms this in his definition of the word “saaq.”

    Lastly, here is an example from a lecture of Bilal Philips on You Tube wherein he tries to prove that Allah is located above your head. This is verbatim he said:

    “When we say He [Allah] is beyond His creation, we are not putting Him in a LOCATION because location came into existence with creation. Allah is where He was before He created. He’s in the same PLACE.”

    If the guy had any sense, he’d know that “location” and “place” are the same thing. It is true that Allah existed before location (and place). And after Allah created place (and location) Allah did not transform and materialize inside of a location or place. Allah is Perfect and Eternal and DOES NOT CHANGE! Idol worshippers pray to something inside of a place. Muslims worship the the One Who created place/space and everything that exists within place/space. Muslims do not worship something in place/space. Ma-sha’ Allah, i have plenty of other references. If you need more, i am willing to help.

    With Allah is the success.

  42. @TheSoundMind

    I’m aware how the Prophet Died (or what the cause was anyways.)
    And I knwo they are the enemies of Islam. However that DOES NOT MEAN we take rocket launchers and destroy their synagogues (like certain misinformed people did in the Bronx.) It means they are our fellow Human beings and we should teach them the True religion of God.

    The Fact the Prophet was killed by a jew DOES NOT change the legal ruling towards them. If it did then wouldn’t Umar bin Al Khattab kill them all under his Khaliphate? Are you saying HE was wrong?? hmm? When he found out one of the governors son beat a non-muslim he called that Non-Muslim the governor and his son and allowed the non-Muslim to beat the son and then allowed the non-Muslim to also beat him (umar) but the non-Muslim refused.

    If anyone is misguiding people it is over passionate unread people like you!

  43. @Swarth
    I am NOT a wahabi. However All wahabis I met (and I don’t like them) say that nothing is to be taken literal to a poitn that Allah is liek Humans. they All say he has 2 hands (becasue the texts do mention 2 hands) but they say the HOW is UNKNOWN and it befits his divinity. (While Asharis say it is power)

    The part of the Kursi I know one brother explained to me (he was a wahabi) it does not literally mean UP. It was a hadith where the slave girl pointed up (rather signaled up) and it is NOT suppose to be taken literally. He quoted Imam Maliki that Allah says he is on th eThrone but we do not know the HOW. and peopel who ask the HOW shoudl be kicked from your circles (he actually did kick a student who asked the how). Imam Shafi states I believe w/e Allah wanted this Ayah to mean (I’m paraphrasing, dont have the text infront of me but you can search it).

    Ghazzali says that Allah DOES have a hand it can be taken to mean power BUt no one can DENY the hand because the texts say he has a hand. However we don’t know the MEANING of it. (the mutazilites compeltely denied it and overall denied the text while others sad the text is true we just dunno what it means because Allah is not like the creation)

  44. @ Ghazali Blogger

    You cannot claim you care for your brothers and sisters, if you do not warn them about who is who and what is what. Scholars wrote whole volumes of books simply to defete one deviant group. Al-Ghazali, the one whos name you have taken for yourself, wrote a book refuting the philosophers. He warned people about this group of people, and refuted them, and made this book avilable to who ever needs it.

    Ghazali Blogger, muslims do not try to hide the deviancy of others. They expose their deviancy, just as you expose a horde of bugs when you lift a rotten log. The bugs go running for the hills. MAsha’Allah, even the Quran warns us about deviant people. So you cannot say its right to forbid the warning of muslims about other deviant groups, groups that they will encounter EVERY SINGLE DAY. Anyone in ameirca who goes to collage, is 100% garanteed to encounter multitudes of Atheists every single day. The one who knows what the Atheists say, and is able to refute it, will be a lot better off than the one who is ignorant. And worse off is the one who facilitated the ignorance of the one that doesn’t know.

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