Reviving the Islamic Spirt – Best Convention?

I’m bias, but it’s def my favorite one.

72 Replies to “Reviving the Islamic Spirt – Best Convention?”

  1. Ghazzali wrote his book against the philosphers and then was also chastised because philosphy was nto available to the masses and because of his refutation it became avialable and people started to study philosophy even though he refuted it (and didnt study what was mandatory on them.) Furthermore in his book deliverance from error he says that what he writes is NOT for the common man it is SCHOLARLY debate. And everyday man shoudl first learn the mandatory knowledge THEN come read the upper level works. Today we teach new Muslims the upper level teachings without the basics.

    he also says “If those who do not possess knowledge avoid scholarly discussusions, disagreements will end.”

    If you teach a person that Allah is NOT a man. If he coems across soemone who does say God is a man i.e. NOI and Christians and Ismalis..He will knwo they are wrong. There is no reason to get into specifics of each and every group if you teach them the specifics of only the ahlul Sunnah. The refutations were written to debate the leaders of the deviant sects. Not for the common man to learn aqeedah from the refutations.

  2. @thesoundmind

    There are people (specially youth) who are mislead that they can kill people unjustly because they are jewish. Because of misudnerstanding the statements of the Quran. If you teach a Youth the jews are the enemies of Allah without clarification (as people have done here) they will go and unjustly kill. But if you teach them what that statement means and what and how you’re suppose to deal with the jews THEN it is a different story. But if you don;t calirfy then we have youth liek the ones from the bronx

  3. Knowing who is who and what is what is part of the basics. It doesn’t take a scholar to defeat an Atheist. Its simple actually, you tell the Atheist; “A thing must be to do.” And his whole world is utterly destroyed. This isn’t something scholarly. Its not something you have to have a high degree of knowledge to know. Infact, like many refutations, its something you shouldn’t have to be taught. Just like a person doesn’t have to be taught to know that Allah is not a man.

    But, we still have many people who do not grasp all of these meanings when they hear La Ilaha Il Allah. So we must clarify. For most people simply knowing the creed does not prepare them for dealing with deviancy.

    Also, might I add, you can teach people about deviant groups, and how to pray at the same time. Me for instance, I’m taking lessons on Aqidah, on Quran Recitation/Memorization, learning about various deviant factions, and I am doing various other things. Infact, learning to pray and fast and such, took a lot less time. All the information you need to know about your obligitory acts can be learned in less than a day. And infact they are usualy taught the same day or a few days after. So your contention that we are leaving something out when we tell people about deviant groups is wrong. You learn the creed partly by learning what what deviancy is. And it is our obligation to give Dawah, so it becomes an obligation to know what deviant groups are out there. And the one who withholds this information when it is clearly needed, is misguided.

  4. what I’m talking about is getting into Specifics. You can tell someone that Allah is NOT a man. You don;t need to tell him the details between a NOI and ISmailis and that NOI came out of Ismailism. When the brother comes across them he can tell them the correct aqeedah without knowing the the specifics between them.
    Learning differences between NOI and Ismailis is a waste of time. You knwo the main point that is taught in aqeedah basics (Allah is not a Man) and hence you knwo they wrong. You don;t need to learn the history unless you already studied the basics. Like memorzing the quran. Brothers I knwo know the TINIEST detaisl between NOI and ismailis but can;t recite ANYTHING. and then when we tell them to come to our class to learn to recite they liek no i wanna learn aqeedah (which in their mind is learning everything BUT the ahlul sunnah aqeedah. None o fthem read Imam Tahawi but they all read the refutation of deviant groups. what im saying is before you learn to refute learn the basic aqeedah first. Read imam tahawi’s book which is the basic before you read Ghazzali’s refutations or Ibn Taymiyyah’s refutations.Or else YOU WILL be confused.

  5. @ Blogger

    Just so we get the semantics straight, the scholars said about Allah He exists: “bi-laa kayf.” That is WITHOUT a how. They did not say:

    “Bi-laa SU’AALI kayf.”

    “Without ASKING how.” Allah has no “howness” to ask about, just as Allah has no temperature, color, weight, or other bodily attributes to ask about.

    Regarding the terms “Yad,” “`Ayn,” “Wajh,” etc.–Muslims confirm them. If we wish to translate to English, then we have to translate in a manner that is befitting of Allah. It is absurd to do what the Wahhabis do, such as, to claim Allah has a literal shin, but that Allah’s (alleged) literal shin in not a bone in the lower leg. A “shin” by definition in the English language is a bone in the lower leg. They can’t have it both ways: either they mean Allah has a bone in the lower leg (which is kufr)–or–they mean something else. If they mean something else, then they can’t claim Allah has a shin.

    The bottomline is that the Wahhabis commit kufr because they pray to a spatial and corporeal entity. The (imaginary) object they pray to has a location and limits; it has a shape, size, and composition. Allah is not like any of the creations, and Allah does not have the attributes of created beings, such as, existing in space, direction, or time.

    With Allah is the success.

  6. Blogger, I agree that you need basic Aqqedah before you go learning about deviant groups, but basic Aqqedah takes a session. It doesn’t take 5 years to learn the basics, it doesn’t even take a week. I can tell you the basics of the creed right now in one post, with explanation. It would take maby 30 minutes to read.

    But at the same time, you have to realize not everyone is on the same level. We have people who come for months before it is felt that they confidently know the creed well enough to be safe. On the other hand you have some people who realize many aspects of the creed just by hearing a few statements. But for sure most sincere people can learn the basics in 2-4 sessions. [each session maby 2 hours] … Now with all that said, that does not mean you only spend four hours on creed. The more you study the creed, the stronger your Iman will be. And the safer you will be, no doubt. But when we say the basics, we are talking about the things people need to know to be muslim. People need to know there is no Prophet after Rasululah Sallahu Alayhi wa Salam. It is a condition of being muslim. If a person doesn’t accept that, and he thinks a new prophet comes after Rasululah, then when that person says Shahadatayn, the only thing he gains is shortness of breath. Period. Khalas. And of course other things, people need to know and believe, when they say shahadah, that Allah does not resmble anything in any way. That Allah does not come from something, that nothing comes from Allah, that Allah is not in something or on something. They need to know that Allah knows everything, and that he created everything. And that Allah does not need anything. These are the basics of the creed, and when someone is a muslim, unless they give sign otherwise, it is assumed they already know the basics, As they are a requirement for being muslim. If someone is a new muslim who just took shahadah however, you still teach them the basics. Because Allahu Alim you do not know from 10 minutes of talking if they really got it, and there may be things that they are not aware they are ignorant of. But you still consider them muslim unless you hear them say or see them do kufr. Masha’Allah, this is the world we have, not everyone, even if sincere, will understand what is required to be muslim when they take Shahadah. We hope for the best when they become muslim, and we teach them.

    Those are the basics, opening At-Tahawi and reading it through is good, but the creed of at-Tahawi is not “the basics”, meaning you don’t have to know the book ‘Creed of At-Tahawi’ to be muslim. And as I said, people can do many things at once, they could learn about deviant groups, and learn about the creed. [usualy at the same time], and learn intermediate things about thier obligations, and nothing is being left out. No one is being deprived of knowledge.

  7. Also, I forgot to mention, before a person goes to learn about the deviant groups, or even about their obligations, they need to learn What Takes Them Out Of Islam. The scholars wrote volumes of books on Apostacy/Riddah. And most of the things that take a person out of Islam, ignorance doesn’t save them. Meaning wether they know its wrong or not, they are still acountable, such as if a person curses Allah aothobilah. Even if they didn’t know its blasphemy, they are still guilty of it, and the one who does it, wether he knows its kufr or not, he a kafir. It doesn’t matter what his intention is.

  8. I completely agree with you guys. THat soemone needs to learn what takes them outside of Islam so they don’t do it/believe it. However teach them not to do/believe those things. But in my experience we teach them and then point the finger at soemone and say “btw these people believe that.”

    There’s a difference between saying, There will be no prophet after Muhamemd (pbuh)


    There will be no prophet after Muhamemd pbuh and btw this group here believes there will be.


    Allah is not liek his creation


    Allah is not like his creation but btw wahabis say that he is.

    Reason I believe we shouldn’t do this is because People say about wahabis that they are literalists. When I talked to them personally they like “NO this is not literal.” I can’t then accuse them of soemthin that they say they aren’t doing.

    Me: You’re a literalist
    Wahabi: No i am not…[then he inserts the proper ahlul sunnah aqeedah]

  9. When you tell a christian they do not believe properly in God, they will tell you that you are wrong. You still have to let people know they are wrong. One christian doesn’t represent what christianity says. Just like one whahabi doesn’t represent what whahabies say. When we judge a deviant group, we go to their leaders and their books. We know what the leaders of whahabism say and we know what the books say, both of them take Ayyat literally, that should not be literal, and because of this they have invalid belief. It doesn’t matter what a bunch whahabies say their belief is, we know what it is based on the books they follow. If they deny what their books say, then they don’t know what whahabism is. If a whahabie says that Ibn Tamiyyah never said the universe has no begining. Than that person doesn’t know what ibn tamiyyah said, because in ibn tamiyyahs book “Aqqedah al-wasitiyah” he said that the universe is without a begining, this is blasphemy. And no one alive today can change the fact that ibn tamiyyah did write this. And this is a core tenet of whahabism. Because ibn tamiyyah is considered a leader by whahabies.

  10. SM is a loser. He/She/It has no friends. SM lies about 99% of the statement he/she/it makes.

    And since SM has no life, he/she/it is looking for blogs where he/she/it can vent and not be held accountable in the dunya for those actions.

    I advise you all if you have even a drop of sense, to ignore this creature and ban him from the blogs. He wants you to reply to him because he has all the replies written up already, and it’s a matter of copy/pasting it. While the rest of you sit there typing up long, hard-thought posts, SM’s replies take 2 seconds, because the post probably already exists on another blog.

    may Allah (swt) guide you back to Islam or give you what you have coming.

  11. It sure sounds nice, but whats with the music?, and the ladies giving lectures? Guys and Ladies mixed, sitting next to each other?? Thats not what the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam taught us, It would have been better if it was dont in the islamic way….

    just my opinion…

  12. Wow, to G. Blogger:

    How can you say that the prophet died b/c of the Jews? I’ve read books and attended lectures at my local mosque to know that is patently false.

  13. Have some of you not realized yet that debates between the beliefs of different sects, namely Salafism/Wahabism or whatever you want to label it, and others, amongst us, the laymen, never gets us any where?

    Well know it now, it’s a total waste of time. It’s endless. Pointless. Useless. It leads to insults and heated remarks usually. So I suppose since it’s best to avoid things that can potentially lead to haram/fitna, it’s best you leave those arguments to those better placed to discuss it, i.e Scholars. Seriously I can’t remember a single thread, in my entire 5 years of being an active reader of Muslim blogs, there was a single agreement, when it comes to debates regarding the opinions of opposing Sects. It leads to nowhere, nothing, as each person tends to enter with the intentions of refuting the other. That leads to both sides refusing to be open-minded, and trying to ‘win’ the argument. We should know better. Stop wasting time arguing. Rather spend more time studying, and use that knowledge to better use, than ‘refuting’ others On-line.

  14. Yeah, everyone would do well to re-visit this lecture, if already done so:

    According to him, the ‘urgent’ desire to fix each other’s aqeedah applies to less than 5% of the Muslim population — those that are ‘religious’. The rest could hardly care for Islam, let alone Salafi/Sufi…

    Where would you like to expend your energy? Where should the priority lie?

  15. @PakistaniMD
    1st I didn’t bring it up another brother did. I just said ‘I know” because I knew what hadith he was refering to.

    He was poisoned by a jew but died 2 or so years later. By saying a Jew poisoned him I do not mean to say it was the Jews (ALL JEWS) who killed him and we shoudl take revenge. NO. THis was an individual. Furthermore people also say he never stopped suffering from the poison but it was the high fever that he (pbuh) was killed from. Allahu Alam.

    If it sounded liek I was condeming All jews for a crime that was commited by an individual than please forgive me. However If you read all my posts you’ll see I am not doing that. And talk about teaching people not fighting at the first sign of differences.


    agreed that’s what I have been saying (or trying). Thank you for the articulation.

  16. Al Sundani, Showing the kufr of whahabism is not fitna. Its an obligation. These people, the whahabies, are not muslim. Period. They are kufar. May Allah damn them all.

    I don’t want to strike an agreement with them or any other deviant groups. You don’t debate to gain agreement on something, you don’t usualy debate to turn the opinion of the other person, most of the time its pointless. Take the debate for instance between me and Blogger, he is probably not going to change his ways, so, the reason I am debating him is because others are reading this. And this is a way for them to see the truth, without being involved. That is the whole purpose of debate. When you have a deviant, most of the time they are not going to change, when you debate them, your main intention likely isn’t even to change the person you debate with, you hope he changes, but Khalas, he is not the point. You debate because others watch. Others see your argument and theirs, they get both sides and they can see truth for themselves. Debates where no one agrees are not failures. They are an oppertonity to give dawah to those who watch.

    As for leaving things to the scholars, whahabism has no scholars to debate with.

  17. “SoundMind” sounds like your typical teenage / young-20ish blowhard who gets all his “knowledge” from the vast sludge of junk information / opinions floatig around on the internet.

    He thinks he’s here “debating” to show “others” all sides of teh story. But all I see is a kid blowing a lot of hot air and contributing to global warming.

  18. What I am doing will have more benefit than what you are doing. 🙂 You are making personal attacks, and I’m telling people how to debate.

  19. Uhuh. As if you actually know how much benefit you’re dishing out. Your presumptuous statements remind me of plenty of other kids I’ve seen come and go. They were all like, you spinning their wheels, kicking up lots of sand but not getting anywhere.

    Rest assured I can school you, and out-class you in the art of debate any day, kiddo. But then again, I’m not the self-appointed witch-hunting expert who’s here with delusions of grandeur [not grandure] about how everyone else needs to be educated on how to debate with “deviants”

  20. Maverick said:

    ” I’m not the self-appointed witch-hunting expert who’s here with delusions of grandeur [not grandure] about how everyone else needs to be educated”

    Then he said:

    “Rest assured I can school you, and out-class you in the art of debate any day, kiddo. “

  21. @soundmind
    On changing my mind, I hold the same views as you.
    I only differ on you with how to deal with others. why? because if you attack soemone who is wrong it’ll make them hold onto the wrong with more conviction. If you show them what is right eventually they’ll leave the wrong and jion you in the good.

    Also that is not the reason you debate.
    Furthermore I am not debating you (because YOU are NOT debating you are ATTACKING) I am defending people who you are attacking; Wahabis and the guys at Zaytuna (and I disagree with both of them f.y.i). I defend wahabis because most of them tell me the same things YOU (soundmind and swarth moor) say on Aqeedah. Zaytuna because they are NOT doing it for the money because I know individuals who set up events and these people never asked for money (unless it’s to cover travel.) Most of the entrance fee goes to the organization that’s sponsoring the event NOT the speakers.

    And I’m telling you not to attack them. Why? because even in the slightest chance YOU are wrong and this counts as backbiting you lose ALL your good deeds.

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